I have Gone over this Scripture thousands of times weighing it against the rest of the Bible. It didn't happen and doesn't fit into the truth spoken in other gospels.

Luke 23
43 And Jesus said to him, "Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise."

Here is the problem.
The wording is specific. It does not say or even imply "today you have passed from death to life" or anything of that nature. specifically "today you will be with Me in Paradise".
The Lord Jesus Christ died and the thief died.
The Lord came back to life on the third day. The Thief did not. Three regular days past.
The Lord did not die and go to heaven.
The Lord came back to Life before He ascended up into heaven alone.
If the Lord was referring to a day to the Lord being a thousand years then two thousand have already past and the saints still sleep in the dust awaiting the resurrection from the dead at Christ's return. Two thousand year days have past.
The Lord Jesus Christ was without sin and did not lie or tell tales.
The Gospels of Matthew and Mark both say that the two thieves reviled Him.

The only reasonable solution to this problem is that Luke's account is not true and the Lord did not say it. Which also would mean that the incident never happened.


John 20
17 Jesus said to her, "Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.' "


Matthew 27
44 Even the robbers who were crucified with Him reviled Him with the same thing.

Mark 15
32 Let the Christ, the King of Israel, descend now from the cross, that we may see and believe." Even those who were crucified with Him reviled Him.

GL..I am not quite sure of your questioning...I am going to take a stab at it...

What I am understanding by your post is the following:

You are questioning the what, where and how concerning Jesus and the repentant theif....If I pegged this correct this is my answer....If I am wrong on your question I am sorry.....

In Numbers 35 (of which 1 Peter 3:18 shows fufillment of this)...In Numbers it explains the cities of refugee. These cities were called together for those who kill accidently and those who did not kill accidently. This is also the place that is called Paradise and referred to by Jesus when He was speaking on the cross.
This is also the same place that a particular church calls pergatory, (which the Pope just announced this week limbo does not exsist)..... Also, in John 3:13 Jesus is still walking the earth, He has yet to do the work on the cross...What is the verse showing? "No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven--the Son of Man." <---This is before His death on the cross....Those who died before the work went to paradise to await the High Priest to come and set them free...This is where we get, "He came to set the captives free." Those in paradise were held captive and He set them free, amen.....

Which brings me into the next part.......

BEFORE, (and the word "before" is one key in understanding this)...Jesus died on the cross ALL the old testiment saints went to Paradise, which is describe in Numbers 35. The salvation work was not complete yet, as Christ had yet to die to save us from our sins. No one had ascended or desended as of yet. This gets into speaking about the call of the high priest and what he did for the atonement of sins.

BEFORE Jesus (the true High Priest) a high priest would go into the Holy of Holies and atone for the sins of the people. This allowed the people "time." I say time, because only one High Priest can truly atone for the sins of the people and it be truly atoned, and that's Jesus. The patterens that were set with the tribes were only a picture/pattern of what WAS YET to come. God is a God of divine order and HE set these things in place to teach what was yet to come...

Now:Back to Paradise and during the work of the Cross....

When Jesus told the humbled theif, "today you will be with Me in paradise." Jesus meant just that. You have to go back to the city of refugee also known as paradise. The people in there had not gone anywhere as they were waiting for the High Priest to deliver them. Also the avenger of blood would not let them out, but he COULD NOT torture them either. They were all in prision. Prision is also another name for paradise as well...When Jesus died, His triune went to work...His body was destined for the grave, His soul destined to hell and his Spirit destined to paradise.

Why was His Spirit destined to paradise? He went there to preach to all those who died before Him to give them the opportunity to accept Him. Those that accepted Him acsended with Him. Once His work there was done, this place called paradise was taken up with Him. The theif had to go to paradise FIRST, why? Because Jesus work had yet to be done and the grace era had not yet began. He had not yet died for the repentant theif to be able to accept his as HIS SAVIOR yet...

It also speaks of completion...Certain things had to be completed before the grace era could begin...

Now you spoke about: John 20
17 Jesus said to her, "Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.' "

No one could touch HIM yet, WHY? This is oh so important to know...When the high priest atoned for the sins of the people he HAD TO present the BLOOD from a SPOTLESS LAMB. Catch this, it's so simple that the elect may trip over it...

NOW, if she had touched HIM before HE ascended to the Father, He would not have been SPOTLESS! Why, she still she was sinner and HE stood there clean..Remember a spotless robe we must have before the Father in heaven... That's all this means....

I hope this helps....

The Bible is always being attacked, by those who would seek to 'prove' that it is wrong, or contains false teachings, just as the thief hanging beside Jesus. Just because the scriptures say something a little different in each of the gospels, doesn't mean that they do not align...where you there to witness the account? The truth is that Jesus showed forgiveness while He hung there upon the cross suffering for us, dying for us.

Why would you want to take away HIS sacrifice from us? HE died and was ressurected on the third day...it all comes down to this:

Jhn 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.


Deny HIS WORD and you deny HIM.

also, the story (if you read all the gospels) makes it clear that at first, everyone being killed with him did dislike him at first but Jesus won over atleast one of the bad guys with his acts and behavior on the cross.

any time we dont see scripture agreeing, it is us that is mistaken, not the scripture.

Things get loopy whenever I try to reason out scripture

Here's one for you, GL. When John in Revelation saw the multitude of people who were washed by the blood of the Lamb (Rev 7:9) do remember being there?

I mean John had witnessed this, but I don't remember being there as I live in the now. But wait! He saw this nearly two thousand years ago so it has already happened, but I am here and I don't remember that happening to me. Oye! The paradox!

Humble, you got your chronological order mixed up...johns vision is future, not past tense...

haha, okay, so when John's vision comes to pass and I do finally stand in the midst of the multitude I will look up on a stage, I guess, and see John, checking us out.

"Look there's John, having a vision of all this that's happening now!"

Good responces you all. I am glad to see that you are willing to dig for the truth to follow the true living God of Heaven and earth. If anyone gets a personal revelation on this subject please dig this thread up and post it.

If all of the writings in the bible are correct and without fault then what is the need for "rightly dividing the word of truth"?

2 Timothy 2
15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Just, read it, believe it, do it and you will be OK?

The new testament scriptures are the Letters and writings of apostles and men. Giving their witness of what happened and their perceptions of the Gospel of Christ.
Apostle Matthew, Apostle John, Apostle James, Apostle Peter, and Apostle Paul (The road to Damascus Apostle) All bear witness of each other in their writings.
We do not know where Mark and Luke came from outside of the writings of Luke.
I do not see any discrepancies in the book of Mark.
The fact that Apostle Matthew, Apostle John and Disciple Mark. Tell a different story about Lazarus and the thieves on the cross than what we read in the gospel of Luke disturbs me.
This coupled with all of the Christian beliefs that have been mixed with Greek mythology gods and justified by the books of Luke. Also in the books of the Gospel according to Apostle John and apostle Matthew we read that if there is only one witness, the one speaking it, the witness is false. It has to be established by two or three. The repentant thief on the cross and Abraham's bosom was only witnessed by Luke?
Man chose what they think is the word of God and assembled it for you before you were born.

So it boils down to asking God for His Spirit so you can know what is His and what is not.







.

Jesus is simply saying he is God.

And that the thief will be with the Father in heaven that day.

First we do know that all of the Word is true.
Second: The Gospels all have different perspectives of same events. It is to be read together. Some writers missed some things, which others picked up.
I am sure that both thieves mocked Him in the beginning, because that is what some writers say, but Luke saw something happen later that the others did not see. Its like that in life as well: A lot of people start out mocking Jesus and land up loving Him, because of what He did for them. The same thing happened to the robber.
God placed both of them there, so that we can have the two types of people on earth represented there. The mocker that keeps on mocking, and the mocker (sinner) who starts off like that, ( God granted him repentance and grace................) repents and gets saved
C

If you are going to question Luke how about John. What about the supposed account of the adulterous woman? Did you know that this was added to the Bible much later? That this particular account was never mentioned or found in early manuscripts?--- In fact, its even footnoted in some translations as such.

Good ahead... read here:

"John 7:53-8:11 gives us the pericope The Woman Caught in Adultery. In the NIV there is a break in the text after John 7:52. After the break we read the following in brackets, "The earliest manuscripts and many other ancient witnesses do not have John 7:53-8:11." The NASB has a footnote at John 7:53 that reads, "Later manuscripts add the story of the adulterous woman, numbering it as John 7:53-8:11." In the Greek texts (NA-27th ed. and UBS 4th ed.) this pericope is enclosed in double-brackets. Double brackets "enclose passages which are regarded as later additions to the text, but which are of evident antiquity and importance" (The Greek New Testament: UBS 4th ed. , Introduction, p. 47). In fact, the editors of the [b]UBS 4th ed. state that they are certain (an 'A' rating) that this text is not original.[/b] (1 John 5:7-8 is a similar example. In the case of 1 John 5:7-8, the dubious section is written as a footnote in many translations.)"


http://www.gcts.edu/ockenga/semlink/bb/viewtopic.php?id=910

To address the original question, it can be noted that the punctuation was added by man, for in the Greek there was none, not even capitol letterings. It just could be, that the comma is in the wrong place.

The man asked for Israel's kingdom promise but the Lord did not say the man would see Him in the kingdom, rather in Paradise. The Bible does make a distinction between the two, and I must believe that the Lord was, and is, well aware of the differences.

If I may offer:--

And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee today, shalt thou be with me in paradise.

This does not mean that people go to paradise restored upon death, for that would contraindicate too much of Scripture to even consider as being a factual implication, moreover, we elsewhere read that no man has ascended up to heaven at any time. Rather that the dead shall be raised first, for Christ is the firstborne of every creature and the firstborne from the dead.

So the Lord says this to the man on a day referenced as 'today', but denies his request of being in Israel's kingdom of peculiar promise while reassuring the man he does have a promise in paradise instead. The Lord never does state that the man will be in Israel's kingdom of promise.

In Revelation we have a tree bearing twelve fruits for the healing of the nations with a great river of divide. Who are they, on either side? I would suggest for your consideration that on one side of this great river is Israel while on the other side it is the nations, for Israel is a called out and separate people. Remember too, that there is an earthly inheritance, one of the heavenly city, and one in the above heavens, or heavenly places, so there may be more to observe than might at first be reckoned.

Some have the hope of seeing Him coming to the earth, some have hope in the heavenly city which also 'comes down from heaven' while others have the hope of appearing with Him when (and where) He appears in the above heavens.


For the additional issues with those on the cross with Christ, may I suggest that there are not discrepancies, but rather fuller and richer, albeit different teachings under consideration in the various records, and may I further refer you to an appendix of the Companion Bible for a richer and more exact references as to the differences and even how many there were, for there were two on either side and not merely one on either side:--

http://www.levendwater.org/companion/append164.html