THOSE WITH EARS TO HEAR

The ‘Main Event’ of the end times is this, click link http://yalibnan.com/site/archives/2007/04/...n_says_sy_2.php or this link; http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/849388.html and ONE VERSE separates this “controversy” from Yeshua’s millennial reign!

Let’s take a look, [brackets and CAPS mine]

Daniel 7:25 And he [antichrist] shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until A TIME and TIMES and the DIVIDING OF TIME.

Remember Isaiah 34:8 and Isaiah 63:4 are both END TIME prophecies and both parallel the “a time and times and the dividing of time” of the above text!

With both describing the time of Yeshua’s return and rescuing His redeemed in, [“Who is this that comes from Edom— I that speak in righteousness MIGHTY TO SAVE” Is. 63:1] also look at Micah 2:13 “The breaker is come up before them: they have broken up, and have passed through the gate, and are gone out by it: and their king shall pass before them, and the LORD on the head of them.

Isaiah 34:8 For it is THE DAY of the LORD'S vengeance, and THE YEAR of recompenses for the controversy of Zion.

Isaiah 63:4 For THE DAY of vengeance is in mine heart, and THE YEAR of my redeemed is come.

Daniel 7:12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for A SEASON and TIME.

The rest of the beasts whose lives are prolonged are the [horns of Daniel 7:8, who are the lion, bear and leopard of 7:4-6] So some or all of them may survive till Daniel 7:26 ends?

Daniel 7:26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion [antichrist], to consume and to destroy it unto the end

The “DIVIDING OF TIME” is the consummation of 120 ‘jubilee cycles’ of 50 years, totaling 6000 years that end on Yom Kippur, October 9, 2008, that ‘divides time’. As Yeshua begins his 1000 year millennial reign!

Daniel 7:27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

WHEN DOES THE “DAY” AND “SEASON” BEGIN

We, those who UNDERSTAND the ‘2300 day vision’ know when it ends! But when does this “day of vengeance” and “season” begin.

Genesis 1:14 And God said, Let there be lights [constellations (mazzaroth), stars, the sun, planets and moons] in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and FOR SEASONS, and for days, and years:

We, those who UNDERSTAND the ‘2300 day vision’ know what the “day of vengeance” is, and why it comes, because our President “has striven against the LORD” (Jeremiah 50:24) and God has set a snare upon his country. He “stumbles and falls” along with several of his cities in Jeremiah 50:31-32)

A “season” can be God’s seven ‘appointed festivals’ or they could be the four spring, summer, fall and winter seasons.

I don’t think there’s any question as to when THE YEAR is that the “year of recompenses and year of the redeemed” are to begin. That being the time between God’s appointed time of 9-22-07, Yom Kippur and the day Daniel’s 2300 day vision ends, on 10-9-08, Yom Kippur.

THE “DAY of vengeance” and SEASON, in my opinion, have two possible dates, May 23, 2007, is God’s ‘appointed time’ and festival of Shavuot/Pentecost or June 21, 2007, the 1st day of summer.

LET’S FILL IN THE DATES

Isaiah 34:8 For it is THE DAY of the LORD'S vengeance, [5-23 or 6-21-07] and THE YEAR of recompenses for the controversy of Zion. [From 9-22-07 to 10-9-2008]

Isaiah 63:4 For THE DAY of vengeance is in mine heart, [5-23 or 6-21-07] and THE YEAR of my redeemed is come.

Daniel 7:12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for A SEASON [5-23 or 6-21-07] and TIME. [From 9-22-07 to 10-9-2008]

There it is my friends, you or I, cannot force God’s hand, and after much study all I can still say this is my opinion, however there is one thing I am absolutely sure of, the ‘vision’ is true.

As the links above point out, dividing God’s land is the ‘Key’ to all end time prophecy. We are into the 1758th day of Daniels 2300 day countdown and as it counts down, current events will heat up!

Giving Him the glory, an Ezekiel 33:6 watching one REPENT the Kingdom of God is at hand, make your election SURE

QUOTE(Gavrial @ Apr 17 2007, 12:18 AM) [snapback]109611[/snapback]

THOSE WITH EARS TO HEAR

The ‘Main Event’ of the end times is this, click link http://yalibnan.com/site/archives/2007/04/...n_says_sy_2.php or this link; http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/849388.html and ONE VERSE separates this “controversy” from Yeshua’s millennial reign!

Let’s take a look, [brackets and CAPS mine]

Daniel 7:25 And he [antichrist] shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until A TIME and TIMES and the DIVIDING OF TIME.

Remember Isaiah 34:8 and Isaiah 63:4 are both END TIME prophecies and both parallel the “a time and times and the dividing of time” of the above text!

With both describing the time of Yeshua’s return and rescuing His redeemed in, [“Who is this that comes from Edom— I that speak in righteousness MIGHTY TO SAVE” Is. 63:1] also look at Micah 2:13 “The breaker is come up before them: they have broken up, and have passed through the gate, and are gone out by it: and their king shall pass before them, and the LORD on the head of them.

Isaiah 34:8 For it is THE DAY of the LORD'S vengeance, and THE YEAR of recompenses for the controversy of Zion.

Isaiah 63:4 For THE DAY of vengeance is in mine heart, and THE YEAR of my redeemed is come.

Daniel 7:12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for A SEASON and TIME.

The rest of the beasts whose lives are prolonged are the [horns of Daniel 7:8, who are the lion, bear and leopard of 7:4-6] So some or all of them may survive till Daniel 7:26 ends?

Daniel 7:26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion [antichrist], to consume and to destroy it unto the end

The “DIVIDING OF TIME” is the consummation of 120 ‘jubilee cycles’ of 50 years, totaling 6000 years that end on Yom Kippur, October 9, 2008, that ‘divides time’. As Yeshua begins his 1000 year millennial reign!

Daniel 7:27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

WHEN DOES THE “DAY” AND “SEASON” BEGIN

We, those who UNDERSTAND the ‘2300 day vision’ know when it ends! But when does this “day of vengeance” and “season” begin.

Genesis 1:14 And God said, Let there be lights [constellations (mazzaroth), stars, the sun, planets and moons] in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and FOR SEASONS, and for days, and years:

We, those who UNDERSTAND the ‘2300 day vision’ know what the “day of vengeance” is, and why it comes, because our President “has striven against the LORD” (Jeremiah 50:24) and God has set a snare upon his country. He “stumbles and falls” along with several of his cities in Jeremiah 50:31-32)

A “season” can be God’s seven ‘appointed festivals’ or they could be the four spring, summer, fall and winter seasons.

I don’t think there’s any question as to when THE YEAR is that the “year of recompenses and year of the redeemed” are to begin. That being the time between God’s appointed time of 9-22-07, Yom Kippur and the day Daniel’s 2300 day vision ends, on 10-9-08, Yom Kippur.

THE “DAY of vengeance” and SEASON, in my opinion, have two possible dates, May 23, 2007, is God’s ‘appointed time’ and festival of Shavuot/Pentecost or June 21, 2007, the 1st day of summer.

LET’S FILL IN THE DATES

Isaiah 34:8 For it is THE DAY of the LORD'S vengeance, [5-23 or 6-21-07] and THE YEAR of recompenses for the controversy of Zion. [From 9-22-07 to 10-9-2008]

Isaiah 63:4 For THE DAY of vengeance is in mine heart, [5-23 or 6-21-07] and THE YEAR of my redeemed is come.

Daniel 7:12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for A SEASON [5-23 or 6-21-07] and TIME. [From 9-22-07 to 10-9-2008]

There it is my friends, you or I, cannot force God’s hand, and after much study all I can still say this is my opinion, however there is one thing I am absolutely sure of, the ‘vision’ is true.

As the links above point out, dividing God’s land is the ‘Key’ to all end time prophecy. We are into the 1758th day of Daniels 2300 day countdown and as it counts down, current events will heat up!

Giving Him the glory, an Ezekiel 33:6 watching one REPENT the Kingdom of God is at hand, make your election SURE

Again, you have taken verses out of their contexts to use as "proof" texts for your positions. What is the CONTEXT of Isaiah 63, Gavrial? What is the CONTEXT of Isaiah 34? What is there in Isaiah 34 that has anything to do with our time? Where is that stated? Is it not EDOM that is mentioned? What about Isaiah 63? You take one verse (4) out of its context and use it to support your erroneous contentions. What is ALL of Isaiah 63 about, Gavrial? This cut and paste approach to the Scriptures is the very foundation for the abundance of errors in the Church today. It is shameful and inexcusable.

Taking verses in their context is hard work requiring much diligence and patience. Grabbing verses here and there out of their context and using them to uphold one's preconceived ideas is inexcusable by those who claim they are serious students of God's Word. This is the method employed by such as Jack "the Ripper" Van Impe who rips verses from everywhere and ties them together to create his errant end times views!

Gavrial, you need to repent and stop leading people astray! The kingdom of God WAS AT HAND in the first century! The kingdom arrived and it is not of this world--just as Jesus described it! Why do you still look for that which has already come? We are NOT into the 1758th day of Daniel--that is pure speculation based on taking verses out of their context!

"Let God be true, but every man a liar" (Romans 3:4).

Preterist

Preterist on Apr 17 2007, at 9:24 AM' in post #109636 said, "This cut and paste approach to the Scriptures is the very foundation for the abundance of errors in the Church today. It is shameful and inexcusable.

Preterist, the book of Daniel is open, don't you agree?

What is your response to the 2 links posted, you have never ONCE responded to the 'abominable act' of our President REJECTING the promise to His people, that Israel is an inheritance given to them, from God and CANNOT BE DIVIDED.

Preterist, this is 'THE ISSUE'! God will allow the antichrist to 'divide' His land, (Daniel 11:39) so He can bring in the Millenial reign of His son, Yeshua!

Preterist, come out of the past, the future is NOW.

Your eyes are closed as if in a spirit of deep sleep, the 2300 day vision of the words of the book of Daniel is still sealed in your mind and you won't open it.

It has been delivered to you, Preterist, because you are learned. The Lord, through His now opened book, (Daniel 12:9) is saying, read this, I pray thee, but you say, I CANNOT BECAUSE IT IS SEALED.

Our President has erred greviously with his 'vision' of a 'Roadmap to Peace' and will stumble, along with our nation and both will be judged. All the tables in our House and Senate are full of vomit and filthiness, so that there is no place clean!

All of us on this forum are weaned from milk that is drawn from the breasts, it is us that God, through His Spirit and word, shall teach knowledge so WE can understand doctrine and not the 'traditional doctrines of men'

Preterist, it must be by precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little.

Preterest you said, "This cut and paste approach to the Scriptures is the very foundation for the abundance of errors in the Church today. It is shameful and inexcusable.

God's word says, there's a little line here and there, this (cut and paste approach) is what causes us to dig into God's word! That's why the verses ARE CROSS REFERENCED in the margins!

Preterist, I would be careful as to who you call a 'liar', if this 2300 day vision is true, AND IT IS and if it came to me through God's Holy spirit, and I believe it has, then I would be in fear and trembling, seeking repentance.

The 'vision' of Habakkuk 2:2-3, is FOR TODAY and is a second witness to Daniel 8:13-14. It is speaking loud and clear in these final 542 end time days!

Preterist my brother, come into todays prophecies and RUN WITH IT.

Giving Him the glory, gavrial

QUOTE(Gavrial @ Apr 17 2007, 11:34 AM) [snapback]109644[/snapback]

Preterist on Apr 17 2007, at 9:24 AM' in post #109636 said, "This cut and paste approach to the Scriptures is the very foundation for the abundance of errors in the Church today. It is shameful and inexcusable.

Preterist, the book of Daniel is open, don't you agree?

What is your response to the 2 links posted, you have never ONCE responded to the 'abominable act' of our President REJECTING the promise to His people, that Israel is an inheritance given to them, from God and CANNOT BE DIVIDED.

Preterist, this is 'THE ISSUE'! God will allow the antichrist to 'divide' His land, (Daniel 11:39) so He can bring in the Millenial reign of His son, Yeshua!

Preterist, come out of the past, the future is NOW.

Your eyes are closed as if in a spirit of deep sleep, the 2300 day vision of the words of the book of Daniel is still sealed in your mind and you won't open it.

It has been delivered to you, Preterist, because you are learned. The Lord, through His now opened book, (Daniel 12:9) is saying, read this, I pray thee, but you say, I CANNOT BECAUSE IT IS SEALED.

Our President has erred greviously with his 'vision' of a 'Roadmap to Peace' and will stumble, along with our nation and both will be judged. All the tables in our House and Senate are full of vomit and filthiness, so that there is no place clean!

All of us on this forum are weaned from milk that is drawn from the breasts, it is us that God, through His Spirit and word, shall teach knowledge so WE can understand doctrine and not the 'traditional doctrines of men'

Preterist, it must be by precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little.

Preterest you said, "This cut and paste approach to the Scriptures is the very foundation for the abundance of errors in the Church today. It is shameful and inexcusable.

God's word says, there's a little line here and there, this (cut and paste approach) is what causes us to dig into God's word! That's why the verses ARE CROSS REFERENCED in the margins!

Preterist, I would be careful as to who you call a 'liar', if this 2300 day vision is true, AND IT IS and if it came to me through God's Holy spirit, and I believe it has, then I would be in fear and trembling, seeking repentance.

The 'vision' of Habakkuk 2:2-3, is FOR TODAY and is a second witness to Daniel 8:13-14. It is speaking loud and clear in these final 542 end time days!

Preterist my brother, come into todays prophecies and RUN WITH IT.

Giving Him the glory, gavrial

Gavrial, I was not calling anyone in particular a liar! Romans 3:4 is a general statement which applies to all of us--myself included. It simply means that anything apart from God's truth is a lie; it is must be our goal as good Bereans to seek to be in that Truth realizing that anything apart from that is a lie and that we are all susceptible! For the most part, I do not believe that most people who misinterpret the Scriptures are intentionally "lying." But anything outside of God's truth is indeed a "lie." That's all I was saying.
Therefore, when I post Romans 3:4, I am addressing myself as much as anyone!

Furthermore, Habakkuk 2:2-3 is NOT for today! What is the CONTEXT of this passage? The Babylonians were used by God to punish His people for their wickedness, ("I am raising up the Chaldeans"--1:6) but He would also execute vengeance against the Babylonians for their wickedness (chapter 2). The writer of Hebrews employs Habakkuk's use of the just living by faith and the surety of God's judgment. In the context of the Day which is approaching in THAT time (first-century AD), they are to exhort one another and stir up one another to "love and good works" (Heb. 10). They are in the midst of struggles, reproaches and tribulations, yet they are exhorted to not "cast away" their "confidence." They had need of "endurance." They were not to "draw back to perdition" but continue believing. What was their confidence?

"For yet a LITTLE WHILE, and He Who is COMING will COME and will NOT tarry" (10:17)--Habakkuk 2:3, 4.

What does "a little while" mean? Almost two thousand years? No! A little while for THEM was AD 70!

Preterist

In response to Preterist on Apr 17 2007, at 9:24 AM' in post #109636 who said,

"For yet a LITTLE WHILE, and He Who is COMING will COME and will NOT tarry" (10:17)--Habakkuk 2:3, 4.

What does "a little while" mean? Almost two thousand years? No! A little while for THEM was AD 70!

The "tarrying time" of Habakkuk 2:3 is over, "For the vision, (Bush's Roadmap) is yet for an appointed time (June 24, 2002) but AT THE END it shall speak, (during the 2300 days) and NOT LIE: though it tarry (it was) wait for it; because it will surely come, (it has) it will not tarry!!

Preterist, PLEASE ANSWER THIS QUESTION; The book of Daniel is open, don't you agree?

Preterist, this is 'THE ISSUE'! God will allow the antichrist to 'divide' His land, (Daniel 11:39) so He can bring in the Millenial reign of His son, Yeshua!

Preterist, come out of the past, the future is NOW.

Your eyes are closed as if in a spirit of deep sleep, the 2300 day vision of the words of the book of Daniel is still sealed in your mind and you won't open it.

It has been delivered to you, Preterist, because you are learned. The Lord, through His now opened book, (Daniel 12:9) is saying, read this, I pray thee, but you say, I CANNOT BECAUSE IT IS SEALED.

Our President has erred greviously with his 'vision' of a 'Roadmap to Peace' and will stumble, along with our nation and both will be judged. All the tables in our House and Senate are full of vomit and filthiness, so that there is no place clean!

All of us on this forum are weaned from milk that is drawn from the breasts, it is us that God, through His Spirit and word, shall teach knowledge so WE can understand doctrine and not the 'traditional doctrines of men'

Preterist, it must be by precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little.

Preterest you said, "This cut and paste approach to the Scriptures is the very foundation for the abundance of errors in the Church today. It is shameful and inexcusable.

God's word says, there's a little line here and there, this (cut and paste approach) is what causes us to dig into God's word! That's why the verses ARE CROSS REFERENCED in the margins!

The 'vision' of Habakkuk 2:2-3, is FOR TODAY and is a second witness to Daniel 8:13-14. It is speaking loud and clear in these final 541 end time days!

Preterist my brother, come into todays prophecies and RUN WITH IT.

Giving Him the glory, gavrial

HEY GAV,

Im curious...do you tell family and friends and strangers, people at the grocery store etc... that Jesus is coming back in 541 days?

My 'ole' friend duncdrewnoah' on Apr 18 2007, at 2:14 PM in post #109747 asked,

HEY GAV,

"I'm curious...do you tell family and friends and strangers, people at the grocery store etc... that Jesus is coming back in 541 days?"

Hello Duncan,

When 911 happened I got quite a reputation in town for exposing it, as a ‘warning’, that God had given us a ‘wake up call’.

Since then some people in town do ask me my opinion on current events, so it does give me an opportunity to share the President’s vision.

Some discussions are cordial and some no ‘so quite’!! So there are several in the area, that know the countdown. I just wonder how many through the internet??

Good to here from you again, Gavrial

i have said before and do so again, I agree we are making a huge mistake in supporting Israels withdraw from gaza, the golan/westbank etc...and we will be punished for it...However, we are also the only thing standing between Israels enemies and Israels destruction. ( i know God would protect her but He is using the USA for that purpose now). If we pulled our troops out of the Mideast today, told the UN we back full Israeli withdrawel and told Israel if they didnt withdraw, we would not help them in case of attack, the arabs and russian would invade within the week. We are the only friend they have in the world. and we would fight to protect them under the current administration.

Jesus is not coming back in 540 days and the USA is still serving Gods purpose of militarily protecting the Jews.

But if I really thought we only had 540 days left, (as you say you do) I wonder how my life would be different??? Could i go about my dailey routine? could i pass by peolpe and not warn them? I was just wondering how you handle such a burden...

My 'ole' friend duncdrewnoah on Apr 19 2007, at 2:24 PM in post #109847

said, “i have said before and do so again, I agree we are making a huge mistake in supporting Israel’s withdraw from Gaza, the golan/westbank etc...And we will be punished for it...However; we are also the only thing standing between Israel’s enemies and Israel’s destruction.”

Duncan, That’s why the “Hammer of the whole earth will be torn asunder and broken”, so we WON’T HINDER Israel’s destruction!

Duncan, also said ( i know God would protect her but He is using the USA for that purpose now). God will pull her through the fire of the Isaiah 17 and Psalm 83 ‘regional conflict’, but he will take ‘vengeance’ against the US first. (Jer 50;15)

Duncan said, “If we pulled our troops out of the Mideast today, told the UN we back full Israeli withdrawal and told Israel if they didn’t withdraw, we would not help them in case of attack, the Arabs and Russian would invade within the week.”

Duncan, the antichrist will get there first, within a day or two, he will “pull Ariel Sharon’s life support system and set up the ‘ultimate’ Abomination of desolation, divide God’s land into a Palestinian state. Israel will get NONE!!

Duncan said, “Jesus is not coming back in 540 days and the USA is still serving Gods purpose of militarily protecting the Jews.”

Duncan, I believe Yeshua returns in 529 days, on Rosh Hashanah, September 30, 2008. The 10 days to October 9, 2008 will have the ‘battle of Armageddon’ and the ’10 vials being poured out on the earth’.

Duncan asked, “But if I really thought we only had 540 days left, (as you say you do) I wonder how my life would be different??? Could i go about my daily routine? Could i pass by people and not warn them? I was just wondering how you handle such a burden...”

Duncan, I’m glad you asked, indeed it is a burden, however the Lord has given me great ‘spiritual strength and stamina’ plus prayer and staying in his word, is the medicine that brings humbleness and love that ‘you’ve gotta have’ with an end time message, such as this.

Posting on forums, isn’t fun, because I, like most members here, was brainwashed into the old 1970’s script and to see something like the President’s vision, that WAS SUPPOSED TO BE ANNOUNCED on June 18, 2002, be changed to June 24, 2002 and JUST HAPPEN to extend out to, the highest Holiest day on God’s calendar and fulfill Daniel’s 2300 day vision, should MAKE EVERYONE come to attention!

Making us all question what we have been taught and maybe going to these writers, teachers and pastors with some hard questions as to what the Lord, through His Spirit has shown that guy Gavrial?

All they have to do is cut and paste off these posts, do a good cross reference bible study and pay attention to what is going on in Israel and the Middle-East.

Duncan said, “Could i pass by people and not warn them? I was just wondering how you handle such a burden...”

Duncan, today a lady pulled up in the pump behind me at the gas station, she had a ‘Jesus’ front licenses plate, I said hello then called her over and I said, I see you are a believer, I want to give you a head’s up warning, I believe that our country sometime between Pentecost, May 23rd and September 22nd, is going to have a greater 911 type attack.

As a believer you are not a child of God in the darkness and I just want to make you aware of this time but pay particular attention to May 23rd, That’s harvest time in Israel, her ‘eyes lit up’ I said God bless you and she thanked me.

I speak only to those that the ‘Spirit’ nudges me to!

Duncan, my friend, thank you, the burden really is light, as long as I keep my eyes on Him, Gavrial

Still none of those things on the link have anything to do with the main event. The Main event starts Here at this following scripture and goes 1335 days to the coming of the Lord.

Revelation 11
1 Then I was given a reed like a measuring rod. And the angel stood,* saying, "Rise and measure the temple of God, the altar, and those who worship there.
2 But leave out the court which is outside the temple, and do not measure it, for it has been given to the Gentiles. And they will tread the holy city underfoot for forty-two months.
3 And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth."
4 These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands standing before the God of the earth.
5 And if anyone wants to harm them, fire proceeds from their mouth and devours their enemies. And if anyone wants to harm them, he must be killed in this manner.
6 These have power to shut heaven, so that no rain falls in the days of their prophecy; and they have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to strike the earth with all plagues, as often as they desire.
7 When they finish their testimony, the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit will make war against them, overcome them, and kill them.
8 And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
9 Then those from the peoples, tribes, tongues, and nations will see their dead bodies three-and-a-half days, and not allow their dead bodies to be put into graves.
10 And those who dwell on the earth will rejoice over them, make merry, and send gifts to one another, because these two prophets tormented those who dwell on the earth.
11 Now after the three-and-a-half days the breath of life from God entered them, and they stood on their feet, and great fear fell on those who saw them.
12 And they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, "Come up here." And they ascended to heaven in a cloud, and their enemies saw them.

charlie on Apr 20 2007, at 3:34 AM in post # 109893 said, “Still none of those things on the link have anything to do with the main event. The Main event starts Here at this following scripture and goes 1335 days to the coming of the Lord.”

Looking at the below dates between 6-13-05 to 10-9-08, in a ‘Gregorian’ mindset, we see 1215 days, 39+ months and almost 3 and a third years.

However, the Hebraic calendar isn’t even Israel’s, its Gods.

He has 7 ‘appointed times’ or days, they always occur on Nisan 14-Passover, Nisan 15-Unleavened Bread, Nisan 16-Firstfruits, Sivan 6-Shavuot (Weeks), Tishri 1-Rosh Hashanah, Tishri 10-Yom Kippur and Tishri 15-21-Sukkot (Tabernacles)

On the ‘Gregorian calendar’ these dates can vary as much as 28 days, every 19 years.

From June 13, 2005 to Thursday, October 9, 2008 is 1215 days or 3 years, 3 months, 27 days including the end date.

June 13, 2005 is 6 Sivan 5765 (Pentecost/Shavuot) October 9, 2005 is 10 Tishri 5769 (Day of Atonement/Yom Kippur)

On God’s calendar, this is considered FOUR YEARS and is also considered 42 MONTHS, there is an additional, leap month, Adar II in 2008 and Tishri 2008 although not full, is counted as a month.

It is a TIME or the ‘appointed time’ of Shavuot also a day Sivan 6, 5765 AND TIMES, all the ‘appointed times’ and ‘days’ in between until the DIVIDING OF TIME, Tishri 10, 5769 another 'appointedtime' and 'day'.

In Daniel 7:25, it is the antichrist who causes the ‘land to become desolate’ as he turns it over to the Gentiles, for as it says, “until a time and times and the dividing of time”.

Do we all not agree that Daniel and Habakkuk are ‘two witnesses’ in a spiritual, if not physical sense to the 2300 day vision? Indeed they are prophets!

Charlie and forum members and guests, I will be getting back with more detail Sunday evening if necessary as I will be leaving home within the hour.

The “Main event” started on June 24, 2002, not on the day man wanted to announce it (6-18-02), God’s hand in events in Jerusalem, ‘appointed’ 6-24-02 as the start date to begin the countdown to His son's Kingdom!

It will end on the ‘great day’, when time is divided 10 Tishri 5769, and Yeshua brings us into His Kingdom and we will all sit down at that ‘great wedding feast’ of the lamb!

This is what it IS ALL ABOUT, our Savior, coming in glory! Are you shouting yet?

However the ‘time, times and the dividing of time’ have not began as yet, but Shavuot is a good possibility.

Charlie, thanks for your response, all of you have a blessed weekend, Gavrial

charlie on 'Apr 20 2007, 03:34 AM' post #109893 said, “Still none of those things on the link have anything to do with the main event. The Main event starts Here at this following scripture and goes 1335 days to the coming of the Lord.”

Looking at the below dates in a ‘Gregorian’ mindset, we see 1215 days, 39+ months and almost 3 and a third years.

However, the Hebraic calendar isn’t even Israel’s, its Gods.

He has 7 ‘appointed times’ or days, they always occur on Nisan 14-Passover, Nisan 15-Unleavened Bread, Nisan 16-Firstfruits, Sivan 6-Shavuot (Weeks), Tishri 1-Rosh Hashanah, Tishri 10-Yom Kippur and Tishri 15-21-Sukkot (Tabernacles)

On the ‘Gregorian calendar’ these dates can vary as much as 28 days, every 19 years.

From June 13, 2005 to Thursday, October 9, 2008 is 1215 days or 3 years, 3 months, 27 days including the end date.

June 13, 2005 is 6 Sivan 5765 (Pentecost/Shavuot) October 9, 2005 is 10 Tishri 5769 (Day of Atonement/Yom Kippur)

On God’s calendar, this is considered FOUR YEARS and is also considered 42 MONTHS, there is an additional, leap month, Adar II in 2008 and Tishri 2008 although not full, is counted as a month.

It is a TIME or the ‘appointed time’ of Shavuot also a day Sivan 6, 5765 AND TIMES, all the ‘appointed times’ and ‘days’ in between until the DIVIDING OF TIME, Tishri 10, 5769.

In Daniel 7:25, it is the antichrist who causes the ‘land to become desolate’ as he turns it over to the Gentiles, for as it says, “until a time and times and the dividing of time”.

Do we all not agree that Daniel and Habakkuk are ‘two witnesses’ in a spiritual, if not physical sense to the 2300 day vision? Indeed they are prophets!

Charlie and forum members and guests, I will be getting back with more detail Sunday evening if necessary as I will be leaving home within the hour.

The “Main event” started on June 24, 2002, not on the day man wanted to announce it (6-18-02), God’s hand in events in Jerusalem, ‘appointed’ 6-24-02. It will end on the ‘great day’, when time is divided 10 Tishri 5769, and Yeshua brings us into His Kingdom and we will all sit down at that ‘great wedding feast’ of the lamb!

However the ‘time, times and the dividing of time’ have not began as yet, but Shavuot is a good possibility.

Charlie, thanks for your response, all of you have a blessed weekend, Gavrial

be safe gav...and have a good trip

Antichrist is only mentioned in the letters of saint John. You need to go there to find out what a antichrist is.
The scripture in Daniel 7:25 does not say what you said.

Daniel 7
25 He shall speak pompous words against the Most High, Shall persecute the saints of the Most High, And shall intend to change times and law. Then the saints shall be given into his hand For a time and times and half a time.

Daniel 8:11 tells that by the host the daily sacrifice is taken away because of what the rulers of the earth are doing and by taking away the daily sacrifice the rulers sanctuary is cast down.

Daniel 8
11 He even exalted himself as high as the Prince of the host; and by him the daily sacrifices were taken away, and the place of His sanctuary was cast down.

charlie on April 20, 2007, at 2:44 PM in post #109921 Said, “Antichrist is only mentioned in the letters of saint John.”
You are correct, that is where the word, antichrist, is referenced.

Charlie also said, “You need to go there to find out what a antichrist is.” Yes, very true.

Also saying, “The scripture in Daniel 7:25 does not say what you said.”

Correct, I was referring to the “for a time and times and half a time”

The ‘so called’ antichrist will divide the God’s land and bring the ‘abomination of desolation’, into Israel, giving ALL OF IT to the Palestinians!

Do we now see why, the US will be “torn asunder and broken” before he does this abominable act!

Charlie, sorry if I confused you in my wording, my apology again.

Daniel 7:25 He shall speak pompous words against the Most High, Shall persecute the saints of the Most High, And shall intend to change times and law. Then the saints shall be given into his hand For a time and times and half a time.

Charlie said, “Daniel 8:11 tells that by the host the daily sacrifice is taken away because of what the rulers of the earth are doing and by taking away the daily sacrifice the rulers sanctuary is cast down.”

Daniel 8:11 He even exalted himself as high as the Prince of the host; and by him the daily sacrifices were taken away, and the place of His sanctuary was cast down.

I believe Daniel 8:11 tells us that the ‘so called’ antichrist (by him) is going to ‘pull’ Ariel Sharon’s life support system, (the 'continual') and for ‘good measure’ tear down the ‘western wall’ praying area!

Do we not wonder why Ariel Sharon is still alive?

Thank you, giving Him the glory, gavrial

QUOTE(Gavrial @ Apr 22 2007, 10:07 PM) [snapback]110123[/snapback]

charlie on April 20, 2007, at 2:44 PM in post #109921 Said, “Antichrist is only mentioned in the letters of saint John.”
You are correct, that is where the word, antichrist, is referenced.

Charlie also said, “You need to go there to find out what a antichrist is.” Yes, very true.

Also saying, “The scripture in Daniel 7:25 does not say what you said.”

Correct, I was referring to the “for a time and times and half a time”

The ‘so called’ antichrist will divide the God’s land and bring the ‘abomination of desolation’, into Israel, giving ALL OF IT to the Palestinians!

Do we now see why, the US will be “torn asunder and broken” before he does this abominable act!

Charlie, sorry if I confused you in my wording, my apology again.

Daniel 7:25 He shall speak pompous words against the Most High, Shall persecute the saints of the Most High, And shall intend to change times and law. Then the saints shall be given into his hand For a time and times and half a time.

Charlie said, “Daniel 8:11 tells that by the host the daily sacrifice is taken away because of what the rulers of the earth are doing and by taking away the daily sacrifice the rulers sanctuary is cast down.”

Daniel 8:11 He even exalted himself as high as the Prince of the host; and by him the daily sacrifices were taken away, and the place of His sanctuary was cast down.

I believe Daniel 8:11 tells us that the ‘so called’ antichrist (by him) is going to ‘pull’ Ariel Sharon’s life support system, (the 'continual') and for ‘good measure’ tear down the ‘western wall’ praying area!

Do we not wonder why Ariel Sharon is still alive?

Thank you, giving Him the glory, gavrial

Will someone please tell me what Matthew 24:15 means? Were not Jesus' disciples standing right there with Him told that THEY would see Daniel's abomination of desolation. Where is the justification for all of this baseless speculation? Ariel Sharon?

Preterist

Preterist on April 23, 2007, at 9:08 AM in post # 110164 asked, “Will someone please tell me what Matthew 24:15 means? Were not Jesus' disciples standing right there with Him told that THEY would see Daniel's abomination of desolation?”

Also asking, “Where is the justification for all of this baseless speculation? Airle Sharon?”

Preterist are you so far in the past that the “day of vengeance and the year of recompenses” are going to take you unawares? Do you even know that they’ll fall on one or both of the following ‘appointed times’ of God in 2007, Shavuot, May 23 or Yom Kippur, September 22, 2007.

Yes, today Ariel Sharon’s ‘life support system’ being pulled by the AC, is speculation and it very well could be the ‘stoppage of prayers’ that are continually being lifted up to heaven from the western wall that are taken away.

Ariel Sharon is being kept alive for a reason and I do believe the AC will definitely pull the western wall down!

Preterist, Here’s your problem and I have asked you twice TO PLEASE ANSWER THIS QUESTION; “The book of Daniel is open, don't you agree?” If you answer one way or the other, YOUR “COVER” that all things have been fulfilled, IS EXPOSED?

Yeshua was speaking of Daniel 11:31 through 45, in Matthew 24:15, note in verse 11:35, speaking of the sealed ‘remnant’ who were falling because they were being tried and purged even to the TIME OF THE END, because it is YET FOR AN ‘APPOINTED TIME’, either one of ‘2’ possible choices are on God’s calendar, Rosh Hashanah 9-30-08 or Yom Kippur 10-9-08!

Look at verse 40, right after “dividing God’s land” in 11:39 it says, “and at THE TIME OF THE END”.

BACK TO MY QUESTION, the book of Daniel is open, don’t you agree?

These quotes are from the “2300 day vision” chapter of Daniel 8, a chapter most "Christian" prophecy gurus claim is referring to Alexander the Great?

This is an end time and end time prophecy ONLY! Take a careful read of these verses, Daniel 8:17… UNDERSTAND, son of man, for the vision, is for the TIME OF THE END. (see 11:40)

And 8:19--- "what shall take place in the latter time of the wrath, for at the `appointed time' shall BE THE END,(see 11:35)

Then 8:26--- shut up the vision; for it shall be for MANY DAYS.


Preterist, this is 'THE ISSUE'! God will allow the antichrist to 'divide' His land, (Daniel 11:39) so He can bring in the Millennial reign of His son, Yeshua!

Preterist, come out of the past, the future is NOW.

Your eyes are closed as if in a spirit of deep sleep, the ‘2300 day vision’ from the words of the book of Daniel are still sealed in your mind and you won't open it.

It has been delivered to you, Preterist, because you are learned. The Lord, through His now opened book, (Daniel 12:9) is saying, read this, I pray thee, but you say, I CANNOT BECAUSE IT IS SEALED.

Preterist my friend, answer my question, I pray that the spirit of understanding will open your eyes, much love, Gavrial

Not all of them were standing there. I am standing here and I hear Him. I have asked the Lord what the abomination of desolation is and He told me.

The Spiritual truths of God have always been baseless speculation to the spirit of man.

But now consider this.
What exactly was it that you think all of the disciples who were with Christ saw as the abomination of desolation?

Keep in mind that most of the disciples were already martyred in other places and countries before the Roman armies surrounded and destroyed Jerusalem.
Besides that Jerusalem didn't have anything to do with Christ anymore anyway.
Christ started the new covenant Jerusalem which had nothing to do with the one He prophesied about it's destruction.

QUOTE(Gavrial @ Apr 23 2007, 07:22 PM) [snapback]110219[/snapback]

Preterist on April 23, 2007, at 9:08 AM in post # 110164 asked, “Will someone please tell me what Matthew 24:15 means? Were not Jesus' disciples standing right there with Him told that THEY would see Daniel's abomination of desolation?”

Also asking, “Where is the justification for all of this baseless speculation? Airle Sharon?”

Preterist are you so far in the past that the “day of vengeance and the year of recompenses” are going to take you unawares? Do you even know that they’ll fall on one or both of the following ‘appointed times’ of God in 2007, Shavuot, May 23 or Yom Kippur, September 22, 2007.

Yes, today Ariel Sharon’s ‘life support system’ being pulled by the AC, is speculation and it very well could be the ‘stoppage of prayers’ that are continually being lifted up to heaven from the western wall that are taken away.

Ariel Sharon is being kept alive for a reason and I do believe the AC will definitely pull the western wall down!

Preterist, Here’s your problem and I have asked you twice TO PLEASE ANSWER THIS QUESTION; “The book of Daniel is open, don't you agree?” If you answer one way or the other, YOUR “COVER” that all things have been fulfilled, IS EXPOSED?

Yeshua was speaking of Daniel 11:31 through 45, in Matthew 24:15, note in verse 11:35, speaking of the sealed ‘remnant’ who were falling because they were being tried and purged even to the TIME OF THE END, because it is YET FOR AN ‘APPOINTED TIME’, either one of ‘2’ possible choices are on God’s calendar, Rosh Hashanah 9-30-08 or Yom Kippur 10-9-08!

Look at verse 40, right after “dividing God’s land” in 11:39 it says, “and at THE TIME OF THE END”.

BACK TO MY QUESTION, the book of Daniel is open, don’t you agree?

These quotes are from the “2300 day vision” chapter of Daniel 8, a chapter most "Christian" prophecy gurus claim is referring to Alexander the Great?

This is an end time and end time prophecy ONLY! Take a careful read of these verses, Daniel 8:17… UNDERSTAND, son of man, for the vision, is for the TIME OF THE END. (see 11:40)

And 8:19--- "what shall take place in the latter time of the wrath, for at the `appointed time' shall BE THE END,(see 11:35)

Then 8:26--- shut up the vision; for it shall be for MANY DAYS.


Preterist, this is 'THE ISSUE'! God will allow the antichrist to 'divide' His land, (Daniel 11:39) so He can bring in the Millennial reign of His son, Yeshua!

Preterist, come out of the past, the future is NOW.

Your eyes are closed as if in a spirit of deep sleep, the ‘2300 day vision’ from the words of the book of Daniel are still sealed in your mind and you won't open it.

It has been delivered to you, Preterist, because you are learned. The Lord, through His now opened book, (Daniel 12:9) is saying, read this, I pray thee, but you say, I CANNOT BECAUSE IT IS SEALED.

Preterist my friend, answer my question, I pray that the spirit of understanding will open your eyes, much love, Gavrial

Dear brother Gavrial: I will answer your question, but do you not see that you do not answer mine? What did Jesus mean in Matthew 24:15--THEY were to see Daniel's abomination of desolation! How much clearer could Jesus have said it? YOU will see the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet! Did Jesus lie? Was He mistaken? What would they have thought? Would not they, as Jews, have thought, "He means the fulfillment of Daniel's prophecy with which we are very familiar!"

I never said that Daniel's book is still sealed! Daniel's book is indeed OPEN and fulfilled--It was opened when Jesus said it would be--THIS generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place.

"But you, Daniel, seal up the words, and seal the book UNTIL THE TIME OF THE END." Daniel 12:4.

" . . . when the power of the holy people has been COMPLETELY shattered, ALL THESE THINGS shall be finsihed" (Daniel 12:7).

Daniel did not understand and asked "My lord, when shall be the end of these things?" He was simply told to go his way because the words were sealed up "till the time of the end."

Compare this to the disciples' questions--when will be the end of the AGE? They were given an answer. Why? Because the time of the end was THEN near. It was nearing time to unseal the words!

What is the end spoken of? The end of the "holy people" and the Old Covenant. Hebrews tells us this. The old was THEN becoming obsolete, growing old and ready to vanish away (Heb. 8).

The power of the "holy people" was indeed shattered in AD 70. All that made them Israel was brought to the ground and destroyed never to be restored! The nation that calls itself Israel today is not biblical Israel. They were scattered among the nations never to be a nation again. The tribes are lost and all identity is lost. God intended it that way!

What did Abraham and the OT saints long for--a physical land and physical promises? What do the Scriptures say, Gavrial?

Abraham himself "waited for a city which has foundations, whose builder and maker is God" (Heb. 11:10). All those who died in faith never received the promises but they saw them "afar off" (verse 13). They "were assured of them, embraced them and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims ON THE EARTH" (verse 13). Does this sound like people looking for a physical city and a physical land? What was it, then, that they sought?

They sought a homeland, but what kind of homeland? They desired "a better, that is, a heavenly [country]" (verse 16). Why does the Church today seek for these OT saints that for which they themselves never longed?

Where are the problems then?

1. not taking time reference words seriously or at face value.
2. not understanding the nature of God's kingdom.
3. not understanding the nature of the END.
4. not understanidng the nature of His coming.

You are indeed telling people your "opinion" when they ask, but you are not giving them biblical answers, my friend.

It is shameful what the Church today does with God's Word. Verses are ripped out of their contexts (which are often completely ignored), time words are redefined to fit the current "eschatology," and Jesus' simple words and statements are misinterpreted. Today's skeptics are clearly justified when they point their fingers at the Church and cry foul! Even they recognize, in their spiritual blindness, what Jesus and the apostles were clearly saying--Jesus was coming back in that generation. So they accuse, and justifably so:

1. The apostles said He was coming back to them--He didn't. They lied. The apostles are false teachers!
2. The Bible, with all of the many time statements, teaches that He was coming back in that generation--He
didn't. It is full of errors. Christianity is a false religion!
3. Jesus said He was coming back in that generation--He didn't. He lied. Jesus is a false prophet!

When will the Church stand up for the truths of God's Word and Jesus' words and defend His honor? As someone very aptly put it--the only answer for nonoccurrence is occurrence! The modern Church's postponement and dual fulfillment teachings are unsatisfactory and unsupportable by the Scriptures.

Again, I ask, what is the CONTEXT of Matthew 24? What did Jesus' words mean to THEM when He plainly said to them YOU, YOU, YOU? Why is the expression "this generation" not taken in its normal, everyday, common, usual usage as Jesus intended it? Why are time reference words either ignored or redefined only in eschatological passages but seen in their normal, common way in noneschatological passages?

What did Jesus mean in Matthew 16:28? (some standing there would see His coming)
What did Jesus mean in Matathew 26:64? (Caiaphas and the Sanhedrin would see His coming)
What did Jesus mean in Revelation 22:7, 12, 20? (Jesus was coming quickly)
What did James mean in James 5:8? (the coming of the Lord was at hand)
What did Peter mean in 1 Peter 4:7? (the end of all things was at hand)

These verses must be dealt with honestly and seriously. Futurists, especially dispensationalists, do not deal with them in such a manner. There is a growing number of saints in churches today who are tired of the endless, fanciful speculations and dishonesty with the time references of the Bible and who are asking questions and finding answers in preterism. IMO this is the second great reformation. It is not 95 theses being nailed to a door but the 100 plus time statements of the NT that are being offered at their face value to those seeking truth.

Also, IMHO, I believe many today cling to the idea of present-day fulfillment because they have a need to be in the thick of things. Where's the excitement for us if we are not to be partakers of these "end time" events? But what makes us so special? Have not many generations come and gone without any biblical prophetic fulfillment? Was it for everyone to see the parting of the Red Sea--or was it clearly THAT generation? Was it for everyone to experience the falling of the walls of Jericho or was it clearly for THAT generation? Was it for everyone to live when Jesus walked this earth and spoke His heavenly words or was it specifically for that generation? Every prophecy has a definite time of fulfillment. That for which you still look was not for us! The Church today has the same attitude of those unbelieving Jews of the first century AD--They missed the first advent of their Messiah and those who call themselves Jews today are still looking for Him. Sadly, Christians today have missed the return of their Lord and the marvelous ramifications of that and are still looking for Him!

"You are depriving us our blessed hope, Preterist," people accuse! Blessed hope? Jesus has come again to take us to be with Him--whether in this life or departed from this life--we are forever NOW with Him and He is with us! The Church is victorious, death has been defeated, Satan has been crushed, Jesus is on His throne in His kingdom which is not of this world, etc. God is in control and nothing can separate us from His love in Christ Jesus our Lord. We are priests for Him and instruments for His use to share His words of life to an unbelieving world. What more do we want?

Many Christians today seem to be excited about a coming Antichrist and the horrible persecutions upon millions of people. They opt out of getting involved in world affairs (unless of course it has something to do with "Israel") because the world is supposed to get worse and worse before the end! What an attitude!

When will we get back to realizing that we are on the winning team and that the fields are still very ripe for harvest? When will we take up our message of hope and blessings in a now existent kingdom which has no end?

Why are people beginning to look seriously at the claims of preterism? Because time after time dates have been set and have come and gone without incident. They are becoming tired of hearing that the Lord is coming SOON (something that was claimed almost two thousand years ago) but He never comes (and please don't quote 2 Peter 3--that was for that generation of people, not ours)! I predict that this growing unrest and dissatisfaction will only increase. Every year that goes by further erodes the claims of futurists and dispensationalists.

Preterist

QUOTE(charlie @ Apr 24 2007, 03:15 AM) [snapback]110237[/snapback]

QUOTE(Preterist @ Apr 23 2007, 06:08 AM) [snapback]110164[/snapback]

Will someone please tell me what Matthew 24:15 means? Were not Jesus' disciples standing right there with Him told that THEY would see Daniel's abomination of desolation. Where is the justification for all of this baseless speculation? Airle Sharon?

Preterist

Not all of them were standing there. I am standing here and I hear Him. I have asked the Lord what the abomination of desolation is and He told me.

The Spiritual truths of God have always been baseless speculation to the spirit of man.

But now consider this.
What exactly was it that you think all of the disciples who were with Christ saw as the abomination of desolation?

Keep in mind that most of the disciples were already martyred in other places and countries before the Roman armies surrounded and destroyed Jerusalem.
Besides that Jerusalem didn't have anything to do with Christ anymore anyway.
Christ started the new covenant Jerusalem which had nothing to do with the one He prophesied about it's destruction.

Charlie: Why are you asking the Lord something that He has already revealed in His Word? If you want to know what the abomination of desolation entailed, compare Matthew 24 with Luke 21--

"When YOU see the abomination of DESOLATION spoken of by Daniel the prophet . . . ." (Mat. 24:15).
"But when YOU see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its DESOLATION is near (Lk. 21:20).

What is it that you don't understand? The abomination is described and the timing is described!

As for the disciples being martyred before the Roman armies surrounded Jerusalem, much of that is speculation. We have very few reliable details about all the deaths of the disciples.

Furthermore, the speculations seen today are, indeed, clearly seen by the spirit of man. Which is all the more condemning to those who are spiritual who do not seen what the unbelieving can see! These speculations are exposed by the Word and not by the "spirit of men."

What do you think the disciples saw as the abomination of desolation? Isn't it clear that Jesus is telling them that THEY will see it? Isn't that the point? If THEY saw it as Jesus clearly indicated, how are we, then, to see it also? Why will you not take Jesus at His word?

Preterist

At it again Russ? Your whole life is speculation Russ. You have no provable facts for nothing because faith doesn't work that way. You can't even understand what the living are telling you. Charlie just told you that he asked the Lord and the Lord told him. You interpreted that as what? With that kind of understanding it would be a wonder if you ever learned to tie your shoes. Or do you wear slip ons to remedy that problem?
Everything that anyone has told you is speculation Russ.

1 Corinthians 3
18 Let no one deceive himself. If anyone among you seems to be wise in this age, let him become a fool that he may become wise.
19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, "He catches the wise in their own craftiness";
20 and again, "The Lord knows the thoughts of the wise, that they are futile."