Greetings to all! I was prompted to start this thread in the hope the One Thousand years that is mentioned in Revelation can be better understood. Two primary objectives, when does it happen, where does it happen.

Here's the referencing scripture:

Revelation 20:4
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Now, I believe scripture does not clearly show the historical or future context of when this or has this happened. In other words it is unclear to me scripturally, if this has happened or when will it happen.

In addition, scripture does not clearly show where does this takes place, in heaven or on earth that the beheaded witnesses reigned with Christ a thousand years.

I will also add it is not scripturally clear to me that the time satan is locked up, for a thousand years, is also a time of peace on earth for a thousand years.

The burden of proof is to provide that scripture does show.

1. Either the thousand years has happened already or will happen from the context of our history.
2. The reign with Christ is in heaven or on earth.
3. If the reign is on earth it is peaceful.

Just to be clear to those who want to know what my belief is, I hold that:

1. The thousand years has already happened
2. The reign happened in heaven in a day while a thousand years past on earth
3. The thousand years on earth was not a peaceful time.

I will also add that.
1. satan was already bound up a thousand years earlier, and
2. he was recently loosed in the last century.

I believe I have scriptural references to support my belief, which I will post later. But for now, here is the challenge, Briefly state your position and cite the supporting scripture with your rationale as to why you believe the scripture supports your view on the matter. Be mindful that holding a position may not account for other factors not fully considered that you may be called upon to defend. For example if I were to say "peace happens and here's the referencing scripture" another may respond "It doesn't say when or where" then I am are expected, to reference when and where, also supported by scripture. Otherwise, if I am unable to scripturally support my belief then I should be mature enough to admit there is some assumption on my part.

Just to note, assumptions are okay because it's human to do so, but just understand assumptions are not scripturally sound, and be humble enough to admit that.

Well, the gauntlet has been thrown down. I pray in Christ name that I and anyone else who wants to participate will be enlightened by God's Holy Spirit. In Jesus' name, Amen!

HB

Revelation 5
10 And have made us kings and priests to our God; And we shall reign on the earth."

Revelation 20
6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

1 Corinthians 6
2 Do you not know that the saints will judge the world?

Nice scripture GL, but HB will say that he believes that this has already happened ! Except for that " we shall reign on the earth " one, that is pretty clear it is not in heaven.

So now, I guess HB has to show us where the saints ruled on earth in the past and for a thousand years.

But HB remember that Christ's rule is "as it is in heaven" because that is the Kingdom of God. So now you have to point out a time , where this was the case for a thousand years.

C



HB you say:
1. The thousand years has already happened
2. The reign happened in heaven in a day while a thousand years past on earth
3. The thousand years on earth was not a peaceful time.

I will also add that.
1. satan was already bound up a thousand years earlier, and
2. he was recently loosed in the last century.

Would you mind giving the scriptures so long for your believes?

In what you say, I would also like to know, if satan was bound, who created all the non-peace for a thousand years.

Which Earth do you think it is, GL? The old earth as you and I live in right now or the New Earth? I believe it will be in the new earth, and here's the scripture to support my belief.

Revelation21:1-3
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

also...

Revelation 22:1-5
1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:

4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.

5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

Being that I believe Revelation 5:10 speaks of the new earth, the question of where the thousand year reign will be is still unanswered (I do not believe the thousand year reign applies to the new heaven and earth). So where is scripture that suggest the old Earth is where the thousand year reign WILL happen and from now?

As for...



I start with

2 Peter 3:8
But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

related to the following verse

Psalm 90:4
4 For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.

These are about time that a thousand years on earth is nothing to God in heaven. So the issue is where...

Revelation 20:4
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

souls being judged, I believe, takes place in heaven, otherewise please show me scripture that souls of people who are dead (i.e. beheaded) are judged on earth?

Summary, where do the souls of the beheaded reign with Christ? In heaven (reference Rev 20:4). How long? It is as a thousand years on earth but a day with the Lord, in heaven.



All for the purpose of God's will by rule of an iron rod, that the Lord would smite nations and kingdoms in the one thousand years on earth.

Revelation 2:27
And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

For Christ did not come to bring peace on earth but a sword.

Matthew 10:34
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

History speaks for itself the many nations that has since risen and fallen, the wars of division fought in the name of God for over a thousand years.

...Rebuttals?

Christs 144,000 Priests rule on earth from Zion the Lords holy mountain. This will be established in the twinkling of an eye, in a moment, after the Lord returns here, with a shout that everyone on earth sees and hears.
Christ is returning here and is going nowhere for a thousand years.
All of mans creation here on earth will be removed by the fire of heaven. Fire that doesn't even leave ashes when it consumes rock.
Three and a half years before Christs return the Lord sends two prophets to shut up heaven and turn the waters of earth to blood, to bring the world down and destroy Babylon that great state of confusion which engulfs the majority of peoples minds here on earth.

Here is what those who will survive into the Lords kingdom need to do.
Push yourselves away from the beasts table and go out and obtain Faith in the Lord alone. Start talking to God and asking Him for the things you need, after you have come out from among them to be separate.

2 Corinthians 6
17 Therefore "Come out from among them And be separate, says the Lord. Do not touch what is unclean, And I will receive you."*
18 "I will be a Father to you, And you shall be My sons and daughters, Says the Lord Almighty."*

John 9
31 Now we know that God does not hear sinners; but if anyone is a worshiper of God and does His will, He hears him.

John 14
21 He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him."
22 Judas (not Iscariot) said to Him, "Lord, how is it that You will manifest Yourself to us, and not to the world?"
23 Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him.
24 He who does not love Me does not keep My words;

GL, I do appreciate your response, but it reminds me of the following joke





My point about the joke above is that the boy had mixed up the meaning of one thing with a meaning of a very common story.

It's very easy to do, as I have done it myself, and it's very human.

This is not a Joking matter Bob

You have chosen the pasture of the beast and you can't hear the Shepherds voice to come out of it. Nonetheless the Shepherd has a staff with a sure hook on the end to snare you and bring you back into the sheepfold. When you see with your own eyes what you have been told then you will know.

What I love about Christ is HIS sense of humor

Does this sound like humor to you?

Jeremiah 25
33 And at that day the slain of the Lord shall be from one end of the earth even to the other end of the earth. They shall not be lamented, or gathered, or buried; they shall become refuse on the ground.
34 "Wail, shepherds, and cry! Roll about in the ashes, You leaders of the flock! For the days of your slaughter and your dispersions are fulfilled; You shall fall like a precious vessel.
35 And the shepherds will have no way to flee, Nor the leaders of the flock to escape.
36 A voice of the cry of the shepherds, And a wailing of the leaders to the flock will be heard. For the Lord has plundered their pasture,
37 And the peaceful dwellings are cut down Because of the fierce anger of the Lord.

Mark 7
20 And He said, "What comes out of a man, that defiles a man.
21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,
22 thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lewdness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness.
23 All these evil things come from within and defile a man."

Matthew 12
33 "Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or else make the tree bad and its fruit bad; for a tree is known by its fruit.
34 Brood of vipers! How can you, being evil, speak good things? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.

Little children do not know such things, GL.

Matthew 18:3
And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Hay thats clever Bob. Walking in confusion and blaming it on being a child. I don't think the Lord will accept that as an excuse. I know it didn't save the children of Sodom and Gomorrah. It didn't help the children of the flood era either or the Israelites who sinned. It didn't keep Nebuchadnezzar from dashing their children to bits.

Dear GL, I am like a child and I am confused for I do not know such things. I am blind and I am deaf as well.

But do you know that the blind are innocent for whoever says they see and hear their sin remains?

For Christ did say

John 9:40
40 And some of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto him, Are we blind also?
41 Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.

Be a child, my friend! Ask Christ that he take away from you that judging spirit, for it causes the salt to lose saltiness and it causes the light to be placed under a bowl!

Ask that Christ give you the spirit like a child. Be ignorant of judgement and just love the Lord!

Go in peace, brother.

HB

Children grow up Bob. Even in Christ Children grow up.
The Lord has raised me for His purpose.
Childhood in Christ is past now and milk is no longer required.
For His judgment He has raised me and for His judgment I will die in Him.

1 Peter 2:1-3
1 Therefore, laying aside all malice, all deceit, hypocrisy, envy, and all evil speaking,
2 as newborn babes, desire the pure milk of the word, that you may grow thereby,

Hebrews 5
12 For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the first principles of the oracles of God; and you have come to need milk and not solid food.
13 For everyone who partakes only of milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, for he is a babe.
14 But solid food belongs to those who are of full age, that is, those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

Hey ! I leave you alone for a minute and you are off topic !! My sister is visiting from Aussie and I cannot take part at the moment.
Stop trying to better each other , just stay with the topic.
HB, I read some of your answers and you are not really making sense in a lot of your scripture use brother. Its like you are trying to puttpgether a quilt , but its not together bro.

You guys have to take each scripture of light it with another relevant scripture (HB, not all scripture relates like that)
Your argument aboput a day and a thousand years is not valid...or like YOU would say: its assumption
love C

Well C, I can admit when I am wrong, and when I have wronged, and when I am arrogant, and when I am as a child, and when I am unrighteous, and when I am confused.

But despite all these things I still have faith and love in Christ.

I figure, better I admit them now before Christ yanks them as tares out of me on judgement, or it will hurt that much worse

But some folks have a problem with just admiting the falibility of their human side, so for those that come here spouting pious scripture using the word in condeming other Christians and or people in general, spreading fear and accusing people of unrighteousness, I don't buy it.

Words that sting are a slap in the face, yet when I turn the cheek another stinging slap is felt on my other cheek. I am not just meat, and some people handle the word like a butcher's cleaver.

As for the thousand years thing, I don't know how else it would apply or what else it could mean. Maybe you can explain it better and tell me how it really is applied or what God meant by it.

Well, I've said and presented why I believe what I believe, but it now comes down to a question of "what is the proper interpretation of the scripture," as my presentation is like quiltwork and it's not working.

Anyone burning with the Holy Spirit care to interpret scripture here?

I printed this off so I could read it once the children leave me alone....they haven't left me alone yet

The thousand year reign of Christ begins at Christ's second coming. When every eye shall see Him.
He will resurrect His dead saints and catch up His living saints in a moment in the twinkling of an eye, the moment He returns.
They will mount up with wings like eagles and fly out and destroy the devils of the earth. They will remove out of His kingdom all things that offend and those who practice lawlessness.
Everything that man has created by worshiping and serving the works of his hands will be no more.
Hear the warning of His servant Jonah and fear the Lord. No one will strengthen themselves who live by the power of iniquity.
By faith in the Lord you are saved and by faith in the Lord you will live and be delivered.
Rebellion against the Lords messengers during the final three and a half years before the Lord's return will be answered by the baptism of fire from heaven that burns away the chaff. So find that mountain moving faith before it's to late.
The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom.

Feast of Tabernacles (Sukkoth)

The autumn Holy Days symbolize the events related to the Second Coming of Jesus Christ:
The first day was the 15th day of the 7th month (Ethanim / Tishri)
Exo 34:22, Lev 23:34-36, 39-43, Num 29:12
A convocation / A High Sabbath day. No servile work done.
Travel to the Sanctuary in Jerusalem required of all men (Exo 23:14,17, Exo 34:22, Deut 16:16).

For seven days the people moved out of their homes and lived in temporary shelters called "Sukkah" as a reminder of their wanderings in the desert for forty years. The branches cut from palm, willow and other trees were to be waved in celebration to the Lord during the first seven days of the feast. (Lev 23:40)
This final feast of the year is a celebration of ingathering at the end of the harvest (Exo 23:16) and is a time of rejoicing and fellowship. It symbolizes the final gathering of God's people, before the marriage supper of the Lamb, to be celebrated in heaven after the second coming.
Feast of Tabernacles: Israel living in tents in wilderness 40 years, The Millennium

No doubt, Minister D, Christ returns a second time, but that does not make his second coming to establish a 1000 years of rule. Nothing I have read so far in scripture shows me this. Rather I believe Christ second coming is to herald the sounding of the Last Trump.

The millenium reign begins when Christ returns and gathers His saints to rule the Earth. I believe this is a time of training for the saints before the final judgment of the nations and the next age is instituted. Then the saints with Christ will rule over the righteous in the nations forever. And God Himself (the Father) will reveal His true glory and dwell among men. Amen.

John

Isaiah clearly states , We will build our own homes, Plant our vineyards, And the Lion and Lamb will lye together.
We will live to be the age of trees. some to 1000 years. A child could die at 100 years old. Read Isaiah

Jesus Christ will actually rule as King here.

Hi Adullam.

There is a common belief that Christ's second return is the beginning of what people call the millennial or millennium reign. The word you had used in your post "gathers" I believe references the following verse

Matthew 24:31
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Otherwise please tell me what verse you had in mind.

This is referenced as "the rapture" and it is a common misinterpretation to take what Christ had said in Matthew 24:31 and assume Revelation 20 is an explanation of the end of times when Matthew 24:31 speaks for itself.

If anyone wants a referencing scripture that gives a bit more detail of Christ was talking about take a look at 2 Peter 3:10

2 Peter 3:10
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Matthew 24:31 2 Peter 3:10
"great sound of a trumpet" = "a great noise"

Furthermore, Christ goes on to talk about people getting taken up, a person in a field an woman at the mill (Matthew 24:40-41). Folks call this the rapture, which is also debated as to when it happens in regards to the tribulation period.

But the rapture belief, the second coming of Christ and the Millennial reign all together as a doctrine of end time prophecy is irreconcilable.

Christ second return to cause people to vanish is contrary to the idea of setting up a millennium reign on the (old) earth. That would be like busing a bunch of people away from a place and telling them the place they just left is their destination.

Again my challenge to anyone is to furnish specific verses to explain and reconcile the millennial reign with end time prophecy. I want specific verses that can be pieced together to support the millennium doctrine as it is commonly interpreted today. Statements like "read the bible" or "read Isaiah" do not qualify.

Hi HB,

What I was referring to was the first resurrection which is for the saints who will rule and reign with Christ in the millunium.

"And I saw thrones and they sat upon them, and judgement was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that where beheaded for the witness of Jesus and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their forheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection" Rev. 20:4,5,6.


Here the saints are ruling over the people who survived the great tribulation. This is a training time for saints to rule and reign with Christ as they will in the next age.

I believe there are two raptures. The first kickstarts a time of great persecution and allows believers left behind one more chance to stand up for the Lord before His coming. Those who are thus purified and made worthy during the final tribulation time are among those gathered when Christ returns to earth to set up His reign at Jerusalem. The second rapture is the gathering to meet Him in the clouds as He returns. It must be remembered that the saints must have glorified bodies before they return, hence, the need of the raptures. The Lord has spared the judgement of the world on the faithful saints in the first rapture. The other group become saints through the judgement as in trial by fire.

John

Because God always manifested Himself as a cloud in the OT, to be caught up in a cloud is a spiritual catching up.
When I received the Spirit I was caught up in spirit with the Lord on a "cloud".

The idea is to fulfill what Jesus said when they asked Him how to pray "your kingdom comes on earth as it is in heaven"
not "your kingdom comes in heaven as it is on earth"

It would be like it is on earth now that is having the world inside the church...

We have a spiritual body. heaven will be like a very vivid dream, you have all your conscienceness but without a physical body....

Because mortality cannot inherit immortality, but immortality can inherit mortality. Jesus did it, and He must do it again to fullfill the fall feasts, like He fulfilled the spring feasts the first time He came.

Because Jesus redeems all creation, "In the beginning God created the Heavens and the earth."

Jesus redeemed the earth the flesh(conquered the 1rst death) 2000 years ago.

Now Jesus had to conquer spiritual death the 2nd death (what is invisible is eternal) Jesus conquered eternal death, so that is WHY the second death has no power over the elect who resurrect with Jesus on earth. (fall feasts)

What the ennemy didn't count on is that Jesus suffered 2 weeks from Trumpets to Tabernacles, these are 2 Prophetic weeks, as it refers to the 12 tribes like in the OT which always took years, (Moise vs Jesus).

The second week redeems the invisible kingdom of God but the 1rst week Jesus redeemed the entire visible universe.
Or else Satan would have escaped somewhere else...

But "there is no place found for him in heaven anymore" The invisible heaven and the visible heaven now
"legally' belongs to Jesus ("all athority has been given to me in heaven and earth").

Legally Jesus had to redeem it all. And in this 7th day since Adam, God saw His works and He rested, now Jesus takes over for a thousand years, and He's not coming back alone....This is a spiritual leadership, and the next thousand years the world must prepare for God Himself to return at the second resurrection.

So always ask yourself is Jesus coming back or are we leaving......?

With all the false messiahs and prophets of the world, this the criteria God uses to know who is who.

Isaiah 44.
6 “ Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel,
And his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts:

‘ I am the First and I am the Last;
Besides Me there is no God.
7 And who can proclaim as I do?
Then let him declare it and set it in order for Me,
Since I appointed the ancient people.

Because even false prophets will do miracles in the name of Jesus, "Lord, Lord did we not (...)"

The letmus test is the knowledge of the creation to set it in order. The only one who can proclaim as God does is His Messiah, the real Messiah. This is why at His return He is called "Word of God". It speaks of the restoration of all things..."In the beginning was the WORD" read on from there.

Jews desire signs but Greeks desire wisdom.

Hi John. Thanks for replying. I appreciate your beliefs but I am also looking for scripture that would support the belief.

I two points to make. One I have not read in the bible an account of two raptures, though I believe there will be one, so I am skeptical of the idea of having two raptures as I am thinking this would be unbiblical. Secondly, I do not refute the time of the saint as stated in Revelation 20, but what I do refute is the interpretation that this is an event still waiting to happen when I believe it has already happened. My supporting scripture is 2 Peter 3:8. I have not received anyones rebuttal to explain or support by scripture the time of the saints is something that is yet to be fulfilled. I believe it has.

Hi MMarc. Yes I do believe Christ will return. His sign will first appear, the earth will mourn, then as the sign of the Son decends from the clouds, poof all of the elect are taken up.

God's Holy Days

Old Testament meaning
A seven-day celebration of the great fall harvest, observed by living in temporary dwellings for the duration of the Feast. (Leviticus 23:33-43)
New Testament meaning
Pictures the Millennium, when the earth will be ruled by Jesus Christ and His saints.
The seven day Feast of Tabernacles is immediately followed by the eighth day. Christians normally call this the Last Great Day based on these statement from Jesus in John 7:37-38:
On the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, "If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink. He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water."
Old Testament meaning
Adjacent to the Feast of Tabernacles, this eighth day is considered a separate Feast. (Leviticus 23:36, 39)
New Testament meaning
Pictures the coming "Great White Throne Judgment" at which all of humanity not previously called will have the chance to hear the True Gospel and accept salvation.
The Last Day - the 8th day of the Feast of Tabernacles picturing the later physical resurrection of the vast majority of humanity who were not resurrected to spirit at the Return of Jesus Christ. (Leviticus 23:39, Revelation 20:5,11-15)

Last Great Day: Resurrection of all the dead who never knew the truth; all will then have an opportunity for salvation.

Pictures the coming "Great White Throne Judgment" at which all of humanity not previously called will have the chance to hear the True Gospel and accept salvation.
The Last Day - the 8th day of the Feast of Tabernacles picturing the later physical resurrection of the vast majority of humanity who were not resurrected to spirit at the Return of Jesus Christ. (Leviticus 23:39, Revelation 20:5,11-15)

D

Hi Humble Bob,

You believe the rapture has already taken place? Or the millenium has taken place? I think the burden of proof lies with you. The saints can only rule for 1,000 years in glorified eternal bodies. This has yet to happen as far as I know. Did the first resurrection already take place? Preposterous

Your reasoning is 1,000 times (or just one big time) off. Were the children of Israel only in Egypt for 4/10 ths of a day?

John

No. I do not believe the rapture has taken place. That is not what I am writing here. I repeat. THE RAPTURE has not taken place. What has taken place is the ruling of the saints, the 1000 years.

As I have said there is this misunderstanding that Revelation 20 regarding the 1000 years and Matthew 24 the sounding of the "last trump" speak of the same thing when I believe they do not.

The Second Coming + Rapture + 1000 year reign ALL combined as the end time prophecy is irreconcilable, a misinterpretation, inconsistent, scripturally unsupportable. It's the stuff of pop Christian comic books, which I use to read, and looking back I can see how errant those publications were.

I have not kept up with this thread - my children have made it near impossible for me to read anything.
I've also been remiss and barely been near my bible in months. Call it my state of mind but I'm barely given 5 minutes of me time.
This rapture stuff - does it take into account that the term rapture came into use in the umm...19th century was it ?? - I don't know - this scottish chickie had a 'vision' and some pastor dude took it and ran with it.....he's really well known too but I don't remember his name. Sorry - memory is shot - what I do read and hear mostly goes in one ear and out the other at the moment. The nurse type at the pain management clinic had to repeat every thing the doctor said to me again outside the office to make sure I had it straight I am so not with it.

Where do you see the saints ruling? Messianics in Jerusalem? A secret society. In comic books? How could you come up with this?

John

The saints ruled in heaven. A day in heaven is a thousand years on earth.

The saints ruled in heaven. A day in heaven is a thousand years on earth.

Hey MM. That's right. The word rapture isn't even biblical, the gathering of the elect at the last trump is, but "rapture" is a man doctrine

1 Corinthians 2:13
Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

I believe the day of the Lord has already started, and for a few reasons...

The rulership is a spiritual one until the spiritual atmosphere of the world will convert all the kingdoms of this world ruled by Satan, again spiritual rulership.

After we die then we take this rulership in Heaven in Spirit and we keep going.

Don't be fooled. All of creation still awaits the revealing of the sons of God. Not everyone that says Lord, Lord, will be permitted entry. Let's not get delusional and think we have already been approved and glorified. It is unreasonable at the very least to presume otherwise.


John

\

Come on now when Christ returns every eye will see him not to mention we will all be in spiritual bodies....

Have you seen Christ descending from heaven??????? are you in a spiritual body??? If you dont know prick your finger if you bleed sorry your not in a spiritual body...

Matthew 24:30
And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

There is the Sign and there is the Son of man. Very subtle.

Acts 1:11
Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

LIKE manner, as in similar but not the same

Revelation 1:7
Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

So, if Christ is revealed when he returns for every eye to see, yes that is possibly true, then it is even undeniable when every eye will see on the last day each and everyone faces Christ for their judgement.

John 6:40
And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

"Seeth" is "believing," as Christ had showed this with Thomas

John 20:27-28
27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.

28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

So, the Lord shall do the same for each that lived in this world unbelieving. He shall have them thrust their hand onto His hand and their hand onto His side so that the faithless will believe and confess Christ as the Lord as Thomas did (Romans 4:11).

John 20:29
Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

Then, be greatful that if you are a believer in Christ now before He is seen on the last day you will be blessed and greatly

John 3:16
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

And who having seen will not help but believe, so that he shall be saved.

So, now it is known the revelation of Revelation, ALL SHALL BE SAVED!

PRAISE THE LORD, JESUS CHRIST, AMEN!

Hey Bob. You mean, even the people who worship the beast will be?

Trully altyhough I would like evey one to be saved "Humble bob its just not going to happen"
Thats why the lake of fire is O so real

Dear Researcher, who do you know worships the beast?

I tell you, there is a thing in me that harbors disbelief, and hatred. A thing that would deny my brother his bread for my own flesh. It would have me envy my fellow man should God show favor upon him and it would move me to slay him. It would have me judge the character and nature of my neighbor first that he be a sorcerer, a whoremonger, an idolater, a liar, or that he makes a defiling thing or an abomination before I would ever judge myself as doing as such. This thing being most unpleasant to God, let anyone say it is removed from him or her that they are without sorcery, whoremonger, murder, idolatry, a lie, never did they defile and never having made an abomination. Let that person confess it here.

And I would say

This would be an amazing thing for they would be made perfect, free of defect never to suffer fault again so that they could profess their perfection now before ever meeting Christ in his presence. They can believe such a thing?

But I believe for myself I shall be made perfect by His hand and my defect will be taken away on the last day for Christ can and will do this with everyone. And from that last day forever more I will never suffer fault. Therefor I do not profess my perfection now but rather profess the perfection of Christ now, to myself and to others.

And on the last day my sorcery, my whoremonger, my murderer, my idolater, my liar, that which I defiled and make an abomination will be taken aside. The thing in me that God detests, these things not written in the book of life taken out of me and cast into the lake of fire.

Wow! That's a fascinating view!

That stuff you are talking about is sin, and, Paul says that is what is in the "flesh" and is against the "Spirit" in us.
That sin is portrayed as an "animate" or conscious force or being (spirit) which I believe (know? ). Which of course, God slowly rids us of over the course of our lifetimes (or our walk with Him). Whatever is left at the (His) return, I knew would be taken away, but, from everyone, that's pretty amazing.

That's more hopeful than the way the last book reads.

Seems more like a merciful God with this. I like it.

Someone must have shown you this. It doesn't seem like man's speculation. This is an interesting interpretation and seems to be truth.

Thanks Bob.

And God bless

Well lets back up a little:::::Revelation 20:1 "And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand."

What angel is this????well its probley Michael but names arent important,,because we know this angel is a good angel,,,watch what he does next....

"Revelation 20:2 "And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,"

So satan is bound for a thousand years....

Revelation 20:3 "And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season."

Here is one of the reasons I have to disagree,,,,,there has never been a time ---and I mean all the way since when Lucifer fell,,,that satan could not deceive the nations in some way.....When he walked the heavens he deceived,,,when he walked the earth he deceived,,,, when he got locked up behind the thrown he decieved,,,,, and when he gets kicked out he will decieve....

Go through the entire bible and satn has always had this ability,,,,,but when Christ returns he will not be able to deceive for one thousand years....

revelation 20:4 "And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years."

You see we are not talking about those that will reign with Christ -why????because it mentions those that have not worshiped the beast or received the mark....(THIS IS YET TO COME)

actually if you look at the next couple of verses after this day satan will be released he will deceive the nations once more and BANG.... THOSE BOOKS WILL BE OPENING UP...

i tried 2 keep it short

opps!!!!You see we "ARE" talking about those that will reign with Christ -why????because it mentions those that have not worshiped the beast or received the mark....(THIS IS YET TO COME) what im saying is those that have not worshipped the beast are cool,,,christ will come back abd they will be with Christ 1000 years

Nightmare, if you have gifts from the Lord then bring them with you. If you do not come anyway to receive them!

Love HB

I didnt catch that????,,,I think we all have different gifts?????

That is true. Bring what you have received from the Lord, if others do not have them.

But leave behind anything that is of vanity

I was thinking the 1000 years were in heaven also. I think there are more verses which would indicate this to be the case than not, but, while researching I came upon this in Isaiah so, I'm not sure. I prefer the end to be the very end, but, if there has to be a 1000 years on earth, I guess I'm ok with that too. Here's the Isaiah part.

Isa 24:1 Behold, Jehovah maketh the earth empty, and maketh it waste, and turneth it upside down, and scattereth abroad the inhabitants thereof.
Isa 24:2 And it shall be, as with the people, so with the priest; as with the servant, so with his master; as with the maid, so with her mistress; as with the buyer, so with the seller; as with the creditor, so with the debtor; as with the taker of interest, so with the giver of interest to him.
Isa 24:3 The earth shall be utterly emptied, and utterly laid waste; for Jehovah hath spoken this word.
Isa 24:4 The earth mourneth and fadeth away, the world languisheth and fadeth away, the lofty people of the earth do languish.
Isa 24:5 The earth also is polluted under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, violated the statutes, broken the everlasting covenant.
Isa 24:6 Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are found guilty: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left.
Isa 24:7 The new wine mourneth, the vine languisheth, all the merry-hearted do sigh.
Isa 24:8 The mirth of tabrets ceaseth, the noise of them that rejoice endeth, the joy of the harp ceaseth.
Isa 24:9 They shall not drink wine with a song; strong drink shall be bitter to them that drink it.
Isa 24:10 The waste city is broken down; every house is shut up, that no man may come in.
Isa 24:11 There is a crying in the streets because of the wine; all joy is darkened, the mirth of the land is gone.
Isa 24:12 In the city is left desolation, and the gate is smitten with destruction.
Isa 24:13 For thus shall it be in the midst of the earth among the peoples, as the shaking of an olive-tree, as the gleanings when the vintage is done.
Isa 24:14 These shall lift up their voice, they shall shout; for the majesty of Jehovah they cry aloud from the sea.
Isa 24:15 Wherefore glorify ye Jehovah in the east, even the name of Jehovah, the God of Israel, in the isles of the sea.
Isa 24:16 From the uttermost part of the earth have we heard songs: Glory to the righteous. But I said, I pine away, I pine away, woe is me! the treacherous have dealt treacherously; yea, the treacherous have dealt very treacherously.
Isa 24:17 Fear, and the pit, and the snare, are upon thee, O inhabitant of the earth.
Isa 24:18 And it shall come to pass, that he who fleeth from the noise of the fear shall fall into the pit; and he that cometh up out of the midst of the pit shall be taken in the snare: for the windows on high are opened, and the foundations of the earth tremble.
Isa 24:19 The earth is utterly broken, the earth is rent asunder, the earth is shaken violently.
Isa 24:20 The earth shall stagger like a drunken man, and shall sway to and fro like a hammock; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it, and it shall fall, and not rise again.
Isa 24:21 And it shall come to pass in that day, that Jehovah will punish the host of the high ones on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth.
Isa 24:22 And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison; and after many days shall they be visited.
Isa 24:23 Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed; for Jehovah of hosts will reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem; and before his elders shall be glory.

I don't know what 24:22 means. I assume the "prison" is Sheol.

I think I understand what your saying,,but only only bring what I know is truth,,,,,Basically I will put what I believe out there and if its truth it will not be disputed,,,but if its false it will be crushed and I will change.....

So with that said I have only shown why Satan has not been locked up for his 1000 years yet,,,and this is because he will not be locked up until Christ returns...

Isa 24:22 And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison; and after many days shall they be visited.

This verse speaks of the Israeli Jews when finally they shall see it is the Messiah they had crucified, and repent and be brought to salvation.

Definitely, not my words, but I believe it!

Oh, yes, how could I forget? Researcher, bring your gifts too!

Love HB

Yeah I feel what I believe is backed up with simple logic and tons of scripture ,,,,,When Christ returns,,no doubt Hes bringing his kingdom with him,,,,1 problem,,,,,flesh and blood cant enter the kingdom, which means the Lord must change us when he comes,,,which He will do.... When he returns He will find many pregnant giving sup(spiritual whores) So what God will do is have those that have not followed the antichrist(satan) teach those who did,,,but before the teaching begans you must lock satan up,,,,cant have him runnin around while your teaching the world....Well after this day of teaching(1000 years) satan will be released to deceive once more.. But now you cant say you never heard the word,,or you dont understand,,,we will all be in spiritual bodies,,,people will know they followed a fake Christ.......The sad part is ------is that the bible says after the teaching day,,,and everyone knows they followed a fake,,,many will still go back to satan when he's released,,,,,guess man really does prefer the darkness over the light

Thanks HB. I looked at a couple of different translations and see it could be different than what I thought.

As for the gifts... I do my best to share what I've been shown (and what I have).


NM, I thought about the thing about Satan not being able to deceive the nations and, it sounds very logical. Although, then I went microscopic and thought, even if Satan himself isn't deceiving the nations, we still are deceived by the sin in us and our sin nature. Hate, murder etc. There would still be other spirits deceiving, it just wouldn't be Satan himself.

Some things don't make sense about a 1000 year reign of Christ on earth like this:

1Co 15:23 But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; then they that are Christ's, at his coming.
1Co 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall deliver up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have abolished all rule and all authority and power.
1Co 15:25 For he must reign, until he hath put all his enemies under his feet.
1Co 15:26 The last enemy that shall be abolished is death.

1Co 15:51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We all shall not sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Co 15:54 But when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
1Co 15:55 O death, where is thy victory? O death, where is thy sting?

He reigns until death is defeated, and, it says death is defeated at His return, then, He hands the kingdom over to the Father. So, the Father would be reigning from then on.

I'll leave it for another day. Hoping for no millenium on earth, but, if we have to go with it, I guess we have to, lol. I like the end being the end better, lol.