DANIEL’S 70th WEEK WAS A LIE FROM THE BEGINNING, The first 69 weeks were agriculturally based; their counting had to include the “leap months” TO KEEP THE YEARS AND THEIR SEASONS IN THEIR PROPER PLACE. The 70th week, agriculturally based, also STAYED IN CYCLE!

Daniels 69th week has come and gone, IT ENDED AT the “cutting off” of Yeshua in 32 CE, and like the week before, the 68th, and it being the “70th” fell into its Sabbatical 49 year cycle.

You can’t change God’s cycles, you let the weeks fall as they may and YOU CAN’T MOVE ONE OR EVEN A HALF ONE into a future cycle.

The teachers and book writers who have done this, and there are many, are TREADING IN DANGEROUS TERRITORY and must repent! As far as I can tell, the Antichrist is the only one God ‘fulfills His will’ with and is allowed to do this. (Daniel 7:25)

Daniel’s 70th week and the Abomination of Desolation prophecy’s have been the HEART AND SOUL of the ‘prophetic gurus’ since the 70’s.

The ‘father of lies’ as really pulled the wool over the eyes of these ‘sheep in wolves clothing’, Yeshua warned in Matthew 24:4 “Take heed that no man deceive you”. They failed to go back to the beginning, and dig into the Torah and Leviticus 25:8-11, to find the end time answer!

The enemy, Satan knew that the ‘TIME, TIMES AND DIVIDING TIME’ of God’s land would be, as it has been, the preeminent ‘controversy’ of the last days.

It is a ‘blown cover as cover’ scheme, to KEEP OUR EYES AND MINDS OFF the ‘Controversy over Zion’. While the ‘VISION’ OF 2300 DAYS counts down unimpeded, as an “at an instant, sudden destruction” comes upon us as a snare!

Make no doubt about it, the Abomination of Desolation will break God’s existing inherited land covenant with Israel.(Genesis 12:7, Psalm 105:9-11), and HAS NOTHING TO DO Daniel’s 70th week. When the antichrist divides God’s land (Daniel 11:39) Matthew 24:15 will be fulfilled, (who reads, let him UNDERSTAND). IT’S EVEN BRACKETED FOR US!

Have a blessed weekend, Giving Him the glory, gavrial

QUOTE(Gavrial @ Mar 30 2007, 07:51 PM) [snapback]107552[/snapback]

DANIEL’S 70th WEEK WAS A LIE FROM THE BEGINNING, The first 69 weeks were agriculturally based; their counting had to include the “leap months” TO KEEP THE YEARS AND THEIR SEASONS IN THEIR PROPER PLACE. The 70th week, agriculturally based, also STAYED IN CYCLE!

Daniels 69th week has come and gone, IT ENDED AT the “cutting off” of Yeshua in 32 CE, and like the week before, the 68th, and it being the “70th” fell into its Sabbatical 49 year cycle.

You can’t change God’s cycles, you let the weeks fall as they may and YOU CAN’T MOVE ONE OR EVEN A HALF ONE into a future cycle.

The teachers and book writers who have done this, and there are many, are TREADING IN DANGEROUS TERRITORY and must repent! As far as I can tell, the Antichrist is the only one God ‘fulfills His will’ with and is allowed to do this. (Daniel 7:25)

Daniel’s 70th week and the Abomination of Desolation prophecy’s have been the HEART AND SOUL of the ‘prophetic gurus’ since the 70’s.

The ‘father of lies’ as really pulled the wool over the eyes of these ‘sheep in wolves clothing’, Yeshua warned in Matthew 24:4 “Take heed that no man deceive you”. They failed to go back to the beginning, and dig into the Torah and Leviticus 25:8-11, to find the end time answer!

The enemy, Satan knew that the ‘TIME, TIMES AND DIVIDING TIME’ of God’s land would be, as it has been, the preeminent ‘controversy’ of the last days.

It is a ‘blown cover as cover’ scheme, to KEEP OUR EYES AND MINDS OFF the ‘Controversy over Zion’. While the ‘VISION’ OF 2300 DAYS counts down unimpeded, as an “at an instant, sudden destruction” comes upon us as a snare!

Make no doubt about it, the Abomination of Desolation will break God’s existing inherited land covenant with Israel.(Genesis 12:7, Psalm 105:9-11), and HAS NOTHING TO DO Daniel’s 70th week. When the antichrist divides God’s land (Daniel 11:39) Matthew 24:15 will be fulfilled, (who reads, let him UNDERSTAND). IT’S EVEN BRACKETED FOR US!

Have a blessed weekend, Giving Him the glory, gavrial

Yes, it is bracketed in Matthew 24:15 but not for US! Why do you not acknowledge to whom Jesus was speaking? "Therefore, when YOU (My disciples standing right here in front of Me) see the abomination of desolation . . . " THEY saw it, Gavrial. If THEY saw it, how is it that WE are to see it?

Preterist

How's this for a hypothesis?

"What occurred 'physically' to the physical temple in 70 A.D. will occur 'spiritually' to the spiritual temple in the last days."

Just a thought.

May Christ be glorified in truth.

In Him,

Mike

QUOTE(bonomike @ Apr 21 2007, 10:24 AM) [snapback]109983[/snapback]

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Mike, respectfully, I see where you are coming from. I was a pre-trib., pre-mil dispensationalist for twenty years. No matter what position we take, we must be willing to abandon anything we hold dear, no matter how long and no matter how many people believe it, if it does not match with the Word. When I was shown by a patient Christian couple the grave errors of dispensationalism, I at first strongly resisted. But after openly holding its claims against the Word of God, I was eventually compelled to abandon the dispensational approach. It was a long but rewarding journey.

I had to ask myself the following question: Is dispensationalism something that is easily seen in the Scriptures or are its advocates forced to manipulate the Word of God to make things "fit?" That is all I am asking of those who disagree with me. Does dispensationalism make sense in light of the clear time restrictions placed upon eschatological passages? Are you comfortable redefining words or ignoring words in order to support your idea of the last days?

Do you not have problems with the YOUs of Matthew 24? (There are over twenty)! Do you not have problems with the letters of Paul because them SEEM to say that Paul and His contemporaries would face many of the horrors and events of the last days? Can you read the epistles without sensing the high degree of expectancy of relief and rescue from Jesus Himself on the part of those first-century saints?

When Jesus is directly addressing His disciples, does it not APPEAR that He is explaining things to THEM that are going to happen to THEM? Is that not your first impression when you read? When He says in John 14 that He will come again to take THEM unto Himself that where He is THEY may be also, does it not APPEAR that He really means that in a special sense for THEM? When Paul says to the Thessalonians and the Corinthians that "WE" will be changed and "WE" will meet the Lord in the air, does not your first instinct tell you that he means that they themselves will be involved in these events?

I hope that some of the things ings I have said here will come to your mind as you read God's Word. I spent years sincerely teaching the errors of dispensationalism. I will spend the rest of my life trying to make up for my guilt in leading others astray.

Are you certain that you really understand the nature of Jesus' Second Coming? It is primarily this issue and the resurrection that cause many to cling to dispensationalism and futurism because they simply cannot see that Jesus' coming and the resurrection could have already happened. Was Jesus' coming physical? Was it visible? Why do many think that? Have they possibly misunderstood Jesus' words?

What about the nature of the resurrection? The time words say what they say. Was not Paul and those to whom he wrote expecting a type of resurrection or change? Are many perhaps misunderstanding the nature of the resurrection? Was it physical? Are these bodies in which we now live so important and necessary to the life we live in the kingdom which is not of this world and which cannot be inherited by flesh and blood?

One problem I had while a dispensationalist was that I was exposed to only dispensational liteature and writers. I graduated from a dispensational seminary; I attended a dispensational church, and all of the my friends were dispensationalists (some of whom I have lost because of my current "heretical" teachings). This is always a dangerous thing. I have spent many wonderful hours with Jehovah's Witnesses. They would never take material I offered to them because they were forbidden to. Why would a group forbid them to read material from a different perspective? Because the leaders know full well that they will begin to think for themselves and could very likely leave the "church!"

I encourage you, if you have not already done so, to honestly investigate the teachings of preterism. If you are right in your views, reading such materials from an opposing viewpoint will only strengthen your beliefs. But wouldn't it be sad if in the end you missed some truth in God's Word because you refused to be open to the opinion's of others?

I sense that you want to be a good Berean. I do too. Part of that, I think, is to be very cautious of using verses to support a viewpoint which has not been thoroughly studied in its context. It is very troubling to me when I see verse after verse from different books and context posted to "prove" a point. I have to wonder whether the poster has really taken to the time to make sure he understands the context of the verses he snatches from their unique passage. I would like to communicate with people who refrain from doing that. I make it a point to never use a verse unless and until I have studied the verses before and after and oftentimes the chapters before and after! I believe that Jack Van Impe is a brother in Christ and is to be respected for his great ability to quote the Scriptures, but I am really disturbed by his constant ripping of verses out of their contexts. It is so easy to use a verse because in isolatiiong it appears to say what we want it to say. God forbid we should ever be caught misunderstanding and misapplying God's Word that way. Can we do so innocently? Of course, but it is far less likely it we take the time to do our homework!

I enjoy studying with others complete passages in their CONTEXT with serious consideration for the AUDIENCE RELEVANCE rather than the cut and paste type of approach that sends the reader all over the Scriptures and makes it impossible for him to adequately deal with all of them.

Preterist

Preterist...Greetings first of all...

I have a question for you...I can see how strongly you hold to your belief concerning the tribs...

After browsing through your last reponse it made me think...When you said, "there are over 20 YOU's in Matthew" it made me think, "DID he check for the correct interpretations?" Our english langauge loses so much translation when converting it over from Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic...

I see that you have studied in various schools, so you may have...Some just study text without checking interps...Did you?

Sometimes the entire text changes meaning when you see what is being said in it's original language.....

Just to say: I am not debating your issue, and don't care to...I believe what I do and until the Lord opens a new understand, I will continue to be a pre-trib...I don't judge you so please don't judge me...thanks...I am just wanting to know if you did study original text language...

Thanks in advance...

QUOTE(Pamela @ Apr 29 2007, 03:22 AM) [snapback]110801[/snapback]

Preterist...Greetings first of all...

I have a question for you...I can see how strongly you hold to your belief concerning the tribs...

After browsing through your last reponse it made me think...When you said, "there are over 20 YOU's in Matthew" it made me think, "DID he check for the correct interpretations?" Our english langauge loses so much translation when converting it over from Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic...

I see that you have studied in various schools, so you may have...Some just study text without checking interps...Did you?

Sometimes the entire text changes meaning when you see what is being said in it's original language.....

Just to say: I am not debating your issue, and don't care to...I believe what I do and until the Lord opens a new understand, I will continue to be a pre-trib...I don't judge you so please don't judge me...thanks...I am just wanting to know if you did study original text language...

Thanks in advance...

Thanks for your post, Pamela. I do not wish to judge you or anyone--only hold people's beliefs (my own included) up against God's Word. Yes, I have studied the original languages--that said, I am NOT an expert. I continue to study them and continue to see how much more I need to study them! As for the personal pronoun YOU, it is very much in the Greek text. There are indeed some difficulties in translation from language to language, but there are also very many passages where the translation is quite simple. Matthew 24 is such a passage. In the Greek as well as in the English translation, Jesus is clearly addressing His disciples about coming things that were to personally affect and involve them.

My journey out of pre-trib, pre-mil, dispensationalism began when I attempted to, on my own and apart from the influence of others, use the Scriptures alone to organize my dispensational thinking. I found that what I believed did not derive from the content of certain books or certain entire passages, but more from a variety of verses and from a variety of context. I began to see as I studied entire books in their context and with serious consideration for the audience relevance that those inspired writers and those saints to whom they wrote believed that somehow they themselves were to be involved in the events prophesied. This air of expectancy and anticipation could only mean one of two things--they were indeed going to witness and be a part of the things which were written or spoken of or they were badly mistaken and their hope was misguided.

It is not my purpose to change everyone's mind here. I am merely attempting to encourage those who are serious students of God's Word to allow it to say what it says. In other words, I cannot see how one can read Matthew 24 without getting the sense that Jesus' disciples themselves were to experience the things about which He warns them. A normal reading brings one to that conclusion. The problem is that people get to verse 29, fail to see how it could possibly have already happened, and then downplay the clear meaning of the other verses. Simple words and expressions such as "this generation" are then redefined in order to accommodate this nonoccurrence conclusion. The best approach, however, is to go from the clear to the "obscure." Jesus clearly said "THIS generation will by no means pass away till ALL these things take place (including verse 29). That taken with all of the YOUs in this passage requires the interpreter to rethink his understanding of the nature of Jesus' coming. Is it possible that one is not grasping the significance of the apocalyptic, figurative language found in verse 29. How did the OT prophets employ such language? Was it literal or figurative? Is Jesus using these type of language here? Studying various OT passages dealing with God's judgment on nations and peoples, one can see that this language is common. Stars don't literally fall from the sky, the heavens are not literally rolled up as a scroll, the earth is not literally shaken out of its place, the hosts of heaven are not literally dissolved.

How we interpret God's Word affects more than the Church itself but greatly affects the plausibility of the message before an unbelieving world. Unbelievers understand, even in their spiritual blindness, that Jesus and the apostles said He was coming back in their lifetimes. They justifiably point their fingers at the Church and cry--"See, the apostles said He was coming back in their lifetimes. According to the Church, He didn't. The apostles lied or were mistaken. They are false teachers. Jesus said He was coming back in their lifetimes. According to the Church, He didn't. He lied or was mistaken. He was a false prophet. The Bible says that Jesus was coming back in their lifetimes. According to the Church, He didn't. The Bible contains errors; Christianity is a false religion.

There are many, many time indicators in the NT--far too many to ignore or redefine. They must be dealt with in an honest fashion. I do not believe that pre-trib, pre-mil dispensationalism does that. We cannot hope to make proper applications if we do not first make proper interpretations. We all come to the Scriptures with preconceived ideas, but we must all guard against letting them influence what the Scriptures clearly say. Jesus said what He meant and meant what He said in the following passages--

"There are some standing here who will not taste death till THEY see the Son of Man COMING in His kingdom" (Matthew 16:28).

"This generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place" (Matthew 24:34).

"Hereafter, YOU [Caiaphas and the rulers] will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of power and COMING on the clouds of heaven" (Matthew 26:64).

Blessings on you, Pamela, as you continue to faithfully study God's Word.

Preterist

God did not create everyone for salvation. He created some for honor and some for dishonor. You can't save the world because the world was condemned before time began. There will be a great multitude who make it into Gods kingdom at the return of Christ who still need the Lord's priests to lead them to fountains of living water. But those who have spoken folly in Christ's name who have not humbled themselves in sackcloth and ashes before the cutoff date will be destroyed.

Thank you for replying...I can appreciate your answer and I was glad to hear that your studies did include studing orginial text translations...

Though we don't agree, I am glad to have had this short correspondance with you...

Blessings...

QUOTE(Pamela @ Apr 30 2007, 09:32 AM) [snapback]110898[/snapback]

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And I feel the same. Blessings to you as well.

Preterist

QUOTE(Pamela @ Apr 30 2007, 09:32 AM) [snapback]110898[/snapback]

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I am glad also. Blessings to you as well.

Preterist