Ok lets discuss the Mark of the beast.

Again I state that unless the Holy Spirit has given you specific prophetic knowledge as to what the Mark of the Beast is; be careful. Without the Holy Spirit revealing it to you it is just your OPINION, and some people are treating your opinion as PROPHETIC KNOWLEDGE in which there is danger of false prophecy. If you like a simple disclaimer can be added such as :

I think...
Could this be it...
Is it possible...
etc.

And this would eliminate the confusion of actual Prophetic knowledge and opinion of current events.

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What I know about the Mark of the Beast.
* It is instituted after the two witnesses are slain by the false prophet.
* It is placed on the hand or forehead.
* It is a means of control by which no one might buy or sell without having it.
* The antichrist presents an image that must be worshipped.
* It is the number of his name or the mark of the beast.

In my opinion what could they be?
* an RFID chip.
* The muslim callous on the forehead caused by multiple prostrations, or the name of the muslim owner of the slave / possibly a name of Allah.
* A tatoo possible bar code
* I hate to say this one but.... Tefillin or Phylacteries. It is a possibility.
* It may not be involved with money at all!!!! It may be a giant "beasts only" sign, much like the coloreds and whites only signs of the pre 1960 era.
* and for now that's all I can think of.

What is the purpose of the mark?
Control! In my opinion.
* If the world goes "moneyless" then it may be a mark of productivity.
* If the world keeps money it may be linked to banking.
* It is a sign of allegiance to the Antichrist and his false prophet.


Why I believe it hasn't occured yet.
* It is instituted AFTER the deaths of the two witnesses, and they are not here yet. Yes the mark will probably be like the social security number, but by God's word a time frame is stated. Essentially 3 and one half years of the mark.


YBIC

What about the mark being a spiritual mark, and what is being bought and sold is related to this mark? This mark must be closely related to the unforgiveable sin, as well, which is blaspheming the Holy Spirit. Since the unforgiveable sin is the only sin that is unforgiveable, and taking the mark leads to the lake of fire, I would have to say we've narrowed it down quite a bit.



P.S. what is the harlot MB buying and selling? Luxuries and souls of men?

Oh yeah, not just luxuries, but "excessive luxuries", or "XES-sive luxuries" or maybe even "XES-sive Compulsive luxuries" ...like, for instance, Paris Hilton's diamond encrusted motorola cellphone





As if owning a Motorola KRZR doesn't already make you a tool, why not outfit it with enough diamonds to make the regent of Siam jealous? That's exactly what Peter Aloisson did when he created the KRZR White, KRZR Leopard and KRZR Roma, the last one being a nod to his love for all things Francesco Totti-related. The price for these little wonders varies on the number and purity of diamonds used; Aloisson's other such luxury cellphones went for $1.3 million. Time to crack open the piggy bank or be content with your buy-one-get-one-free Verizon cellphone. Jump over the cliff for a few more pics.



http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/cellphones/diamondencrusted-krzr-for-the-rich-and-heartless-214286.php

But...how could it cause rich and poor, free and bond, great and small to recieve a mark, without an "image" to worship?



[img]http://www.cartoonstock.com/lowres/hsc3206l.jpg[/img]
(cartoon of a man sitting in front of a TV set watching "lifestyles of the rich and famous and indicted")

The TV set is nothing but one continuous, non-stop infomercial selling luxuries and souls of men and women...

If the two witnesses are an allegorical construct of the [b]missionary church[/b] (lampstands and olive trees) and the "beast from the abyss" is an allegory of [b]satellite images[/b] beamed from "[b]outer space[/b]" ([b]the abyss[/b], where wandering stars, or planets, exist...the place reserved for the fallen angels until their destruction)



Jude 1:13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; [b]wandering stars (planetes)[/b], to whom is [b]reserved the blackness of darkness for ever[/b].





...then it can easily be seen how the "[b]beast from the abyss[/b]" can overpower the two witnesses by using imagery from the television set, beamed down by satellite to MTV, HBO, The Discovery Channel ("The Lost Tomb of Jesus", most recently aired on the Jewish holiday of [b]Purim[/b]), etc.......while the gentiles watch their dead bodies and rejoice and [b]send gifts to one another[/b] during "Happy Holidays" in the death of "X-tianity" and in celebration of the "Yule tide" or some other pagan tradition...

"As Seen On TV"..."but wait, there's more!" ....because if you saw it on TV, it's got to be true, right?

what makes you think that it must start after the two witnesses are slain? The two witness are prophecied right through the tribulation period and are killed right at the second woe which is the 6th trumpet, right before Jesus' return.

Are you asking Itchy or me? Because if you're asking me, I don't believe the two witnesses are killed at the beginning, but at the end of the tribulation 3 1/2 days before the resurrection after they have witnessed against the kingdom of the beast with the message of the 3 woes of the last 3 trumpets (I'll have to check that and make sure I'm right)



I also believe that the 2 witnesses is a corporate body consisting of the allegorical churches of Smyrna and Philadelphia (2 "candlesticks", or "lampstands") just as the harlot is a corporate entity along with the beast and false prophet. I don't believe the 2 witnesses are 2 individuals like the tradittions of men have taught...that is absurd...the living church is supposed to be witnessing the living word...not two "superheroes" in a book full of garbage called "Left Behind"...

[quote name='mmddll' date='Mar 25 2007, 09:03 PM' post='106841']
I also believe that the 2 witnesses is a corporate body consisting of the allegorical churches of Smyrna and Philadelphia (2 "candlesticks", or "lampstands") just as the harlot is a corporate entity along with the beast and false prophet. I don't believe the 2 witnesses are 2 individuals like the tradittions of men have taught...that is absurd...the living church is supposed to be witnessing the living word...not two "superheroes" in a book full of garbage called "Left Behind"...
[/quote]

Forget about "Left Behind". It isn't scripture.

But the Bible is.


[quote name='itchy' date='Mar 24 2007, 06:55 PM' post='106684']
In my opinion what could they be?
* an RFID chip.
* The muslim callous on the forehead caused by multiple prostrations, or the name of the muslim owner of the slave / possibly a name of Allah.
* A tatoo possible bar code
* I hate to say this one but.... Tefillin or Phylacteries. It is a possibility.
* It may not be involved with money at all!!!! It may be a giant "beasts only" sign, much like the coloreds and whites only signs of the pre 1960 era.
* and for now that's all I can think of.

[/quote]

I skipped over the rest, but what you list here is a good start, because a lot of people are looking at very high-tech solutions for this mark. Yet scripture says nothing about a high-tech mark. It could be ahigh-tech mark, but it could just as well be very low-tech. In fact, given that the drama is to be played out in the Middle East, a low-tech mark makes a lot of sense.

hello Exc.,

Well it depends on when you start the stopwatch doesn't it.?

The two witnesses are prophecied to preach for three and a half years. Then the false prophet comes out of the bottomless pit and kills them.

Then the beast which is the antichrist ascends out of the pit. The point is that if the "seven year period" begins with the two witnesses, then the mark of the beast does not begin until the beast has arrived! Can't have the mark of the beast without the beast himself, and he doesn't appear until after the two witnesses are slain, and will have power over the earth for the last three and half years through the mark.

That is my understanding anyway.

PS. Why do you think Christ returns then Exc.?

YBIC,
Itchy

mmddll,

Strange..... I don't know what to think of what you have posted.

Itchy

since you can "neither buy nor sell" if you don't have it, considering the present technique, it would make sense that it is a chip, with visible mark outside, representing the LOGO associated with the Beast (aka the new economic world system). Upon accepting one must swear allegiance to the beast. It's a whole ceremony.

SInce God works with pictures and types, that reminds me when someone is given A MEDAL for services rendered... On the medal stands what the guy did to receive said medal.
That will be the same with the Mark of the Beast. It will be a SIGN OF ALLEGIANCE; and people will be clearly warned what it stands for.

There, I think of THE OATH EVERY ASPIRING MASON does!
But the Bible is clear, when we can repent from any oath, there is no repentance in this one!

One last thing: NEITHER CAN YOU TRADE SAVE YOU HAVE THE MARK.
We have a system called TRADE MARK!!!!

[quote name='itchy' date='Mar 27 2007, 02:15 AM' post='106903']
hello Exc.,

Well it depends on when you start the stopwatch doesn't it.?

The two witnesses are prophecied to preach for three and a half years. Then the false prophet comes out of the bottomless pit and kills them.

Then the beast which is the antichrist ascends out of the pit. The point is that if the "seven year period" begins with the two witnesses, then the mark of the beast does not begin until the beast has arrived! Can't have the mark of the beast without the beast himself, and he doesn't appear until after the two witnesses are slain, and will have power over the earth for the last three and half years through the mark.

That is my understanding anyway.

[/quote]
It also depends on where you stop the stopwatch and count back 3.5 years from.
Its clear that the the two witnesses are killed during the second woe (sixth trumpet) and the very next event is the third woe (seventh trumpet) in Rev 11:14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly. These events occur AFTER the 3.5 year Great Tribulation.

Also it is not saying that the false prophet ascends out of the pit in order to kill the two witnesses. It says that the beast which had previously ascended out of the pit kills the two witnesses. I deny entirely that the beast does not appear until after the two witnesses are slain. Clearly the two witnesses have been spending the 3.5 years speaking out against the treatment of the Saints and against the dominion of the antichrist.

I believe the mark of the beast is both spiritual symbolic meaning but will ultimately manifest in the physical realm as a literal mark. There are old Testament scriptures that help us understand the spiritual meaning behind the mark of the beast as well as what we read in Revelation.

Like for instance the number 666 is found in I Kings and Ezra. Most would overlook this. However is we look at those scriptures we see that it does relate to Revelation in some way.

I Kings 10

13And king Solomon gave unto the queen of Sheba all her desire, whatsoever she asked, beside that which Solomon gave her of his royal bounty. So she turned and went to her own country, she and her servants.
14Now the weight of gold that came to Solomon in one year was [b]six hundred threescore and six talents[/b] of gold, 15Beside that he had of the merchantmen, and of the traffick of the spice merchants, and of all the kings of Arabia, and of the governors of the country. 15Beside that he had of the merchantmen, and of the traffick of the spice merchants, and of all the kings of Arabia, and of the governors of the country.

I Kings 11

1But king Solomon loved many strange women, together with the daughter of Pharaoh, women of the Moabites, Ammonites, Edomites, Zidonians, and Hittites: 2Of the nations concerning which the LORD said unto the children of Israel, Ye shall not go in to them, neither shall they come in unto you: for surely they will turn away your heart after their gods: Solomon clave unto these in love.

4For it came to pass, when Solomon was old, that his wives turned away his heart after other gods: and his heart was not perfect with the LORD his God, as was the heart of David his father. 5For Solomon went after Ashtoreth the goddess of the Zidonians, and after Milcom the abomination of the Ammonites. 6And Solomon did evil in the sight of the LORD, and went not fully after the LORD, as did David his father. 7Then did Solomon build an high place for Chemosh, the abomination of Moab, in the hill that is before Jerusalem, and for Molech, the abomination of the children of Ammon.

So we see here that Solomon built high places to other gods--- Chemosh. Chemosh is another name for Saturn--- and the number of Chemosh or Molech according to the Chaldean is 666. Now the symbol in geometry for Saturn(ie Molech and Chemosh, and even Mammon are other names for this same false god) is the hexagram because the triangles form a representation of 666.

There are all sorts of hexagrams but the seal of Solomon(tho most call it the Magen David) is the most notorious hexagram. Other hexagrams are the Chinese I Ching hexagrams that are binary lines of 6 and in mythology where given by Fuxi(ie the chinese version of Dagon) for divination. The binary code number system is based on the I Ching. (see here http://www.atariarchives.org/deli/binary_choices.php) Computers and bar code technology, morse code, etc. are all based on binary number system--- which derived from the I Ching,(ie hexagrams)

Anyway I guess my point is that the mark of the beast will most likely be spiritually linked to Chemosh(ie Saturn orSatan) and bear the number of his name 666.

The question remains as to how it will manifest-- it could be a bar code, RFID chip, or any of the other things someone else listed. Even Allah who was Allat( a moon goddess) also bears the number 666, which again identifies with Chemosh worship.

Well I may not have it all figured it out yet--- LOL but I'm sure there are others here that can sharpen what it means and bring a better focus. :0

Just looked this up on the net.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/666_(number)

"In the Eastern Orthodox Church, 666 is considered to be symbolic. Because 666 in Greek Numeralsis [b]χξς[/b] and [b]χ[/b] stands for the Christ(Χριστός in Greek), [b]ς[/b] for the man because the man was created the sixth day of Genesis(ς' in Greek Numerals is number six) and the Serpent, represented by [b]ξ[/b], came between them."

This brought to mind the story, that there are those who want to eliminate the letter x from their Alphabets, since they are against any mention of Christ.

More and more things are making sense to me now, I had been wondering about that one.

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