I was having a conversation over the last week with my Fiance's cousin. She became a Muslim a few Years ago... I was trying to have a conversation about our religions with her. For anyone who has ever talked religion with a muslim... it's almost impossible!!

I could say nothing that she had an answer for! And every time i made a good point she came back with the statement "The Bible was made by Man so therefore not from God, it is full of mistakes and false quotes". How do you try to convert a Muslim or even have a normal chat about religion if they completly disregard the whole bible as false words from man??

I was so mad and fustrated when i couldn't get through her thick head!! Why do they think that the Whole bible - The New and Old Testiment - is not from God??? that's why i think that the Muslims will never be changed, they are so thick headed!!

What can i say!!!?!

We can't by ourselves or by our own methods.

God can.
The muslim, the jew, pagans, rock stars,,,even "christians"
Gods will is that all be reconciled to him.

We are to stand in the gap for them,,,and pray for them.
It is not God's desire that any perish,
he does not delight in death.

How?
Not directly with our words or actions to or for them...
(sometimes those are recieved as and have effects as bombs and bullets)

Our weapon,,,,our tool
is PRAYER

Pray for them.

These things are only possible through prayer and fasting.

Can We Win Against The Muslim?, What do you say?

Our victory is in Christ. He has already won.

I agree with Raf-Ogg... prayer.

Praise the Lord for His goodness and His lovingkindness and the marvelous works that He does among the children of men.

You are very brave to approach such a hardened heart.

What can i say!!!?!
Sometimes our actions speak loudest of all... just be a wonderful example of a disciple of Jesus Christ.

-Dani

Do not worry about it. God is sovereign and all those whom He called, will hear. The rest will not.

We must pray that God will bring the elect on our path, because there are a lot of our brothers and sisters that is still waiting to hear the gospel. When they hear, they will listen. God has chosen them and He is the One that enables His chosen to hear. The rest cannot and will not.

Iam in same field like you . I broken my head not just with muslims. I broke my head explaining to hindus and other religion.They wont listen.

Thanks all!

I was checking out the 12th Imam on Wikipedia and they think that Jesus will stand behind the 12th Imam and let him say a prayer before the anti-christ is killed..

How many vote that Jesus knocks the Imam over his thick head with his Iron rod!! lol

He will,,,,
trust that he will.


Sin is bound to enter this world
but WOE !!!!!
to whom it enters through.

The one that causes his children to sin,,,,the one that leads his sheep astray,,,
it would be better to have never been born, or have a stone hung around his neck and be thrown into the sea.


Meanwhile,,,,,,,pray.
Many are lost,,,many are decieved.
Many are given over because of the hardness of their hearts.

Pray first, asking the Holy Spirit to open her eyes to the truth and convict her of sin, righteous, and judgement.

Then use the same thing Moses used to condemn the Israelites--the Law. Even Muslims believe in the Ten Commandments, or at least have a sense of right vs. wrong.

There's a truth about God, that I would imagine the Muslim would also agree with in pertaining to Allah, that is this: God is holy.

God does no wrong. God does not sin. God cannot allow anything unclean, sinful, unholy into his presence without defiling the unspotted glory in which he dwells. If anything sinful were to enter into his presence without atonement, there would be nothing left but immediate judgement, immediate hell-fire.

The question for the Muslim is this: In that day, when you stand before God's holy perfection, what are you going to offer him that will pay for your sin, and allow you to stand uncondemned in his presence? How many good works will it take for God to turn a blind eye to your sin? How would it be possible for a sinful, unclean human to make restitution for his own sin?

There is no God-satisfying answer to these questions to be provided by sinful man. There must be a blood sacrifice to atone for the sins of man before a holy God. (God will allow you to pay for your own sins in eternal hell-fire, but why would you want to do that?)

In your Muslim beliefs, who's blood was shed to pay for your sins? How is God's justice satisfied such that you can enter into his presence uncondemned?

No matter how many good works you do. No matter how many times you blow yourself up (of course, that can be only one time), the sins you have committed must still be paid for. How is that accomplished?

Any of these questions may be the right one, given a certain situation.

The issue is not whether or not the Muslim believes the Bible, the issue is whether or not that Muslim has ever loved something more than God (how do they spend their time), idolized something or someone, taken God's name in vain, dishonored (disobeyed) their father and mother, killed someone (even if in word only), committed adultery (looked upon a man/woman in lust, or had pre/extra-marital sex), stolen anything (even if just a ball-point pen), lied, or desired to have what someone else possesses.

If the answer is "yes" (and I know it is) to any one of the above, they are guilty before God and set for judgement and punishment, unless the appropriate blood atonement is made on their behalf. Keeping a set of rules or doing good deeds doesn't pay for the sin that's already been committed, no more than a teenager making her bed makes up for the fact that she sneaked out in the middle of the night, against her parent's orders.

Well, I've said probably more than I needed to get the argument across. If there are visible signs of her coming into conviction over sin by the Holy Spirit, you can show how God sent his only son as sacrifical payment for sin to those who will come to him in repentance and faith. If there are no signs of conviction, leave her in condemnation under the law until the next meeting. (Let her sleep on it a while.)

Be broken in prayer for her soul.

In Christ,

Mike

That is because they believe that Isa (Jesus in Islam) will come and be subordinate to al-Mahdi (12th Imam in Shiite Islam), and help him establish Islam over all the world (and in the process, kill off all those Jews and Christians who refuse to convert).

See the comparisons of al-Mahdi and Antichrist, and Isa and False Prophet here:

http://al-mahdi.atspace.com/al-mahdi.html
http://al-mahdi.atspace.com/isa.html

Not impossible, but certainly difficult. Many Muslims have come to know Christ, but it is a hard and long process, and fraught with many dangers, both for the Muslim and the Christian seeking to reach them. One wrong word and the Christian could end up physically dead.



Well, they are under the bondage of Satan, and therefore unable to see spiritually. It is the same with other non-Christians also, except that Islam has a tighter hold on Muslims.

While Muslims believe that the Bible has been corrupted, there is not one shred of evidence from the Qur'an nor from the hadiths (records of words and deeds of Muhammad). There are a number of simple reasons, one of which is that the Qur'an says that the Bible has prophesied about Muhammad. Of course, that is not be found. Since the Qur'an is accepted to be true, and since prophecies are not found in the Bible, the natural conclusion to them is that the Bible must have been changed. The Biblical passages alleged to prophesy about Muhammad are taken out of context (eg. prophet like Moses in Deut 18:15, the Comforter in John 14).

When told that the Bible has been corrupted, one needs to ask, when was it corrupted? If it was after the time of Muhammad, we have many manuscripts that were before his time that attests to the texts itself. If it was before Muhammad, why did Muhammad speak of them as true (Jews and Christians are called by the title People of the Book)? Every early Muslim scholar does not believe in the corruption of the Bible (text), only in the misinterpretation of it. Those Qur'anic verses that a Muslim can muster refers to the latter corruption in interpretation and not the former type of corruption. That is an important distinction many people fail to realize.

To help you, head over to http://answering-islam.org and search for "bible corruption". Should bring up many articles on that issue.

Besides, the Qur'an itself is also beset with problems with its texts. If you know Islamic history, you will also know that the 4th Caliph (successor to Muhammad) had scribes collect the Qur'anic verses, wrote out a new one and have all previous ones destroyed! Even after that, there were still different variants that existed, and was recorded in Islamic history books and commentaries. Muslims fail to question the Qur'an critically as they would the Bible.



Again, it is not us who can change them, but God through the Holy Spirit. And many Muslims have become Christians. The latest one is an Iranian Imam who has become a Christian through satellite TV.

http://www.worthynews.com/christian/irania...scapes-country/

Islam has a built-in system that denies every important doctrine of Christianity. Christians need to understand this and also learn the answers to the questions and challenges they will throw at Christians.

QUOTE(jason benoit @ Mar 12 2007, 06:13 AM)

I was having a conversation over the last week with my Fiance's cousin. She became a Muslim a few Years ago... I was trying to have a conversation about our religions with her. For anyone who has ever talked religion with a muslim... it's almost impossible!!
***
How many Christians are Muslim? I have always been interested in the beliefs of other cultures and what I have found is all beliefs have a base and time line. Any disagreements would be in the terminology.

Convincing a Muslim that Jesus Christ is the Saviour of mankind is like convincing a Christian that Enoch is the Saviour of mankind.

That in itself is a sign that Christianity needs some education.

There are three individuals in the bible that went to heaven. Two did not die and the third, Jesus, died and was resurrected. The two that did not die were Enoch and Elijah. Why didn't they save the Old Testament people? Or was there too much peace during the time of Jesus for them to believe that they needed a saviour and since they knew they needed a saviour during the Old Testament times and were continually writing songs and speaking proverbs, they really didn't need one? Or did it have to form in the collective conscious that the way to go is putting off the flesh? And the only way for the desire to want to become a grab-bag full of experiences is to . . . sorry, gettin' into too much religion.

The Quran did not exactly come down from Heaven, written on golden tablets by the hands of angels.

Server not found. .


I heard that Michael Jackson converted to Islam?.

And every time i made a good point she came back with the statement "The Bible was made by Man so therefore not from God

Very early Islamic sources had some interesting things to say abut the origin of the Quran [ Ibn Ishaq died in 761, and wrote the first biography on Muhammad]-


‘A more ancient historian, Wakidi, has the following sentence in which it is suggested that ‘Abdallah b. Sa’d b. Abi Sarh, and a Christian slave, ibn Qumta, had something to do with the Koran. And ibn Abi Sarh came back and said to Quraish: “It was only a Christian slave who was teaching him (Muhammad); I used to write to him and change whatever I wanted.”’.....

Please note that Abdallah b. Sa’d b Abi Sarh was Muhammad’s trusted scribe. When Muhammad migrated to Medina Abdallah also followed him. Whenever Muhammad went into a trance he would dictate Abdallah to write down his utterances. When Abdallah suggested some changes to Muhammad’s lisping, Muhammad would readily agree with Abdallah.... This led Abdallah to suspect Muhammad’s claim of reception of messages from Allah, apostatised and left Medina for Mecca. He then proclaimed that he (Abdallah) too could easily write the Qur’anic verses being inspired by Allah...Muhammad was furious and sought Allah’s help. Allah promptly sent down verse 6:93, condemning any one who claims to be inspired by Allah....When Muhammad occupied Mecca he earmarked 8 [or10 (6 men, 4 women) according to Ibn Sa’d, vol. ii, p165] people to be killed even if they were found in the precinct of Ka’ba. Abdallah was one of them.

A Christian who converted to Islam wrote Muhammad's revelations; then he reverted back to Christianity and claimed that Muhammad knew nothing and he wrote the Quran for Muhammad; when this man died his body was repeatedly thrown out from the grave...4.56.814

Volume 4, Book 56, Number 814:

Narrated Anas:

There was a Christian who embraced Islam and read Surat-al-Baqara and Al-Imran, and he used to write (the revelations) for the Prophet. Later on he returned to Christianity again and he used to say: "Muhammad knows nothing but what I have written for him." ....

We need to mention here two other main contributors to the Qur’an. They were Abdullah b. Salam and Mukhayariq. According to Ibn Ishaq (Ibn Ishaq, p.239) Abdullah b. Salam b. al-Harith was a Jew from B. Qaynuqa who converted to Islam when Muhammad arrived at Medina. Mukhayariq, too, was a Jewish Rabbi from B. Thalaba and he also converted to Islam. Abdullah b. Salam was an authority on Torah, and had undoubtedly contributed to write in the Qur’an, the Jewish stuff--especially the Jewish laws.

Here is a brief list of some of the materials in the Qur’an that Muhammad copied/adopted from the Christians, the Jews, the Armenians, the Hindus and the Magians (Zoroastrians):

Tayammum (4:43): Copied from the Jewish Scripture the Talmud.

Breathing life into birds (2:260, 3:49, 5:110): Copied from the Coptic books.

Houris, Azazil (44:54): Learned from the foreigners in Mecca.

Harut amd Marut (2:102): From the Armenian books—Harut and Marut are in control of wind and rain.

Allah’s throne above water (11:7): From the Jewish tradition.

Malik, the ruler of Hell (43:77): From the Jews.

7 Heavens (2:29, 41:12): Adopted from the Sanskrit Scripture of the Hindus.

Mary giving birth under the trunk of a tree (19:23): Copied from the Gospel of Infancy, an apocryphal Christian Gospel

Infant Jesus talking (3:46, 19:30-31, 19:33): Copied from the Gospel of Infancy.

Description of Paradise and Hell (there are many verses—see the section on Salman, the Persian: Copied from the Magians (Zoroastrians) and the Hindus.

Jesus not killed, Allah lifted up Jesus (3:55, 4:157-158): Copied from the Gospel of Barnabas

The story of Joseph (Sura 12): Copied from the Midrash, a Jewish Scripture.

The story of Solomon and Sheba (21:78-82, 27:17-19, 27:22-23): Copied from the Haggada, a Jewish Scripture.

The original Qur’an is kept in Heaven (43:4, 85:21-22): The Talmud says it is a preserved tablet in Heaven.

Angel of death--Azrail or Azazil, Malaku’l Maut (6:61, 7:37, 32:11): Adopted from the Jewish and the Magian (Zoroastrian) scriptures....

Muhammad’s neighbour was an-Nadr b. al-Harith. He also used to write verses similar to the Qur’an. He was also a very good story-teller--especially of the ancient fables. Whenever Muhammad gathered people to listen to his tales in the Qur’an an-Nadr would entice the audience of Muhammad with better stories than Muhammad. Due to an-Nadr’s excellent proficiency in narrating the anecdotes Muhammad saw his audience disappear. Muhammad considered an-Nadr’s act extremely loathsome and had his revenge taken by capturing an-Nadr in the battle of Badr and later beheading him.

http://www.mukto-mona.com/Articles/kasem/quran_origin4.htm

Try again. I just did and it was there. Probably some temporarily glitch at the server.

As for Michael Jackson, it is possible. He has been in Bahrain for quite a while already.

Perhaps you might remind them that their religion was based on the Hebrew Torah and on the New Testiment beliefs. Especially the belief that they are descendants of Ismael....I Hope this might open the door for you to be a witness for JESUS.

If you can find some common ground and then open the door to conversation, you can then compare how the Islamic Religion has verred off of the Jewish belief in the Torrah, and Christian beliefs of JESUS CHRIST...by showing them HIS truth. Please do this in the LOVE of CHRIST. It is easy for us to become frustrated. I have something our pastor wrote, not long ago. If I can find it I will post some of the things he wrote about.

May the LORD bless you in your efforts to witness for HIM!

Thick headed people are not only in the Muslim religion. They are everywhere. I have found that, regardless of why their head is thick, if they have an ounce of saveability in them , When you display the Power of God to them they turn immediately.