An interesting thought occurred to me recently and that is I noticed that ALL of the people who take the time to research Ezekiels temple and draw plans and make models of it, believe that it will be made during the Millenium.
http://www.sonstoglory.com/ThirdTempleEzek...nnialTemple.htm
Perhaps God will reward these men by giving them important roles in the construction and administration of the temple during the millenium. How fantastic to think that God will dwell there for 1000 uninterrupted years.
I can't wait to see it and walk in its courts and see the kings of all nations coming up to worship the Lord there.
People who don't believe that Ezekiels temple is millenial basically ignore all of those many chapters which describe it and do not believe it will be built at all. Or else they believe it is all symbolic.
Full Version: Ezekiels Temple
excubitor on March 8 2007, at 11:05 PM' in post # 104740 said,
"An interesting thought occurred to me recently and that is I noticed that ALL of the people who take the time to research Ezekiels temple and draw plans and make models of it, believe that it will be made during the Millenium".
Yes, its description covers 8 chapters in Ezekiel, how long did it take you to figure it out? I'm kidding you of course, this is just a case in point, that people won't read on there own, but will trust what some man says, that is even common sensically difficult to believe?
Why would the antichrist, indwelt by satan, who is trying to eliminate ALL of Israels Jewish population, EVEN THINK ABOUT BUILDING A JEWISH TEMPLE!!
It almost goes beyond the realm of common sense, but as stated so many times, with sadness, the 'traditions of men' are as a strong net. They have snared the masses, who are afraid to search for the truth and flee from the 'liars'. May God have mercy.
Thank you for your post, excubitor, you are a favorite of mine, Gavrial
"An interesting thought occurred to me recently and that is I noticed that ALL of the people who take the time to research Ezekiels temple and draw plans and make models of it, believe that it will be made during the Millenium".
Yes, its description covers 8 chapters in Ezekiel, how long did it take you to figure it out? I'm kidding you of course, this is just a case in point, that people won't read on there own, but will trust what some man says, that is even common sensically difficult to believe?
Why would the antichrist, indwelt by satan, who is trying to eliminate ALL of Israels Jewish population, EVEN THINK ABOUT BUILDING A JEWISH TEMPLE!!
It almost goes beyond the realm of common sense, but as stated so many times, with sadness, the 'traditions of men' are as a strong net. They have snared the masses, who are afraid to search for the truth and flee from the 'liars'. May God have mercy.
Thank you for your post, excubitor, you are a favorite of mine, Gavrial
QUOTE(excubitor @ Mar 8 2007, 08:05 PM) [snapback]104740[/snapback]
An interesting thought occurred to me recently and that is I noticed that ALL of the people who take the time to research Ezekiels temple and draw plans and make models of it, believe that it will be made during the Millenium.
http://www.sonstoglory.com/ThirdTempleEzek...nnialTemple.htm
Perhaps God will reward these men by giving them important roles in the construction and administration of the temple during the millenium. How fantastic to think that God will dwell there for 1000 uninterrupted years.
I can't wait to see it and walk in its courts and see the kings of all nations coming up to worship the Lord there.
People who don't believe that Ezekiels temple is millenial basically ignore all of those many chapters which describe it and do not believe it will be built at all. Or else they believe it is all symbolic.
Zechariah 2
1 Then I raised my eyes and looked, and behold, a man with a measuring line in his hand.
2 So I said, "Where are you going?" And he said to me, "To measure Jerusalem, to see what is its width and what is its length."
3 And there was the angel who talked with me, going out; and another angel was coming out to meet him,
4 who said to him, "Run, speak to this young man, saying: 'Jerusalem shall be inhabited as towns without walls, because of the multitude of men and livestock in it.
5 For I,' says the Lord, 'will be a wall of fire all around her, and I will be the glory in her midst.' "
This is from The Temple Institute who have been preparing all the implements for their proposed 3rd Jewish Temple. It was interesting to see what they're take was with regards to the future Temple recorded in Ezekiel.
====================================
How do We Understand the Vision of the Future Temple as Described in the Book of Ezekiel?
http://www.templeinstitute.org/future_temple.htm
According to the great sages of Israel, it is a positive commandment for the people of Israel to rebuild the Holy Temple conforming to the dimensions, characteristics and attributes of the Second Temple. Thus, although there were differences between the First and Second Temples, and vast differences between both of these and the vision of Ezekiel - it is the details of the Second Temple that are binding upon Israel for all time. This is why the majority of the Temple Institute's work and research, both in artistic representation as well as actual Temple restoration, centers on the aspects of the Second Temple.
These details and dimensions are clearly described in the Mishneh of Tractate Middot (literally, "attributes" or "measures") of the Babylonian Talmud. This tractate also includes the dimensions and layout of the Temple Mount, and discusses many matters applicable to both the Holy Temple and the Mount.
In his introduction to this tractate, the great sage Maimonides writes that its purpose is to preserve all the details of the Second Temple. This, he states, is "because when the time comes to rebuild, care should be taken to preserve these details and rebuild the Temple in the exact same manner... because it was built with Divine Inspiration. Thus the verse states, 'All this, said he, is put in writing by the hand of the L-rd who instructed me, all the works of this pattern' (II Chron. 28:19)."
"The structure of Solomon's temple is explained in the book of Kings," Maimonides states further. "When the Second Temple was originally constructed in the time of Ezra, it was built as a combination of the First Temple built by King Solomon, but including certain aspects of the things mentioned by Ezekiel, (in chapters 40-43, which were said with regard to the future Temple), as well. Herod razed the structure built by Ezra, and rebuilt it completely anew. Our sages stated: 'Whoever has never seen the building built by Herod, has never seen a beautiful building in his life'." Moreover, writes Maimonides, although the Temple that will be built in the future is written in the book of Ezekiel, it remains unexplained and unclear."
Many aspects of the Temple described by Ezekiel are difficult to comprehend, since that vision contains elements of prophetic insight which, in our generation, we do not have the spiritual or intellectual capacity to understand. For example, according to the prophecy of Ezekiel, the structure of the Third Temple will necessitate vast topographical changes in the environs of the Jerusalem. This Temple will differ drastically in size from its predecessors. According to Ezekiel's measurements, the new Temple will be so large that it will occupy the entire area of the city of Jerusalem. Ezekiel's prophecy explains that both the Temple Mount and the Mount of Olives will be enlarged and expanded in the future.
Despite the uncertainties that we temporarily face in understanding the elements of Ezekiel's prophetic revelation, we can still appreciate the fact that this prophet's teaching was part of a larger, broader tradition that he received from the earlier prophets.
Thus, it should be noted when the Second Temple was erected, its builders incorporated a number of components that were based on Ezekiel's prophecy. Everything that they were able to understand from Ezekiel's words, they included in the structure of the Second Temple.
These details include, for example, the permanent closure of the southern gate (44:2); the chambers of the Women's Court ("the courts of the incense" - 46:21); and the width of the altar (3:1).
All of those details from Ezekiel's prophecy that were not explained in the Second Temple era, remain sealed until that time when "the earth shall be filled with the knowledge of G-d, as the waters that cover the sea" (Isaiah 11:9). In the future, we shall be enlightened with a higher level of spiritual awareness and consciousness, and at that time we will have the ability to perceive the deeper meaning of all those portions of Ezekiel's vision that had heretofore been inaccessible. Until that time, it is the Second Temple's attributes that must be upheld when rebuilding the Temple. Most importantly, Israel's Divine obligation to rebuild the Holy Temple remains a constant and unchanging factor in the nation's life, throughout every generation.
On Jerry Golden's site he beleives it will be the MASONS who rebuild the Temple as it is in their mythology that they built the first one. He showd photos of numbered stones piled up ready for construction. Havent heard much else though since then.
====================================
How do We Understand the Vision of the Future Temple as Described in the Book of Ezekiel?
http://www.templeinstitute.org/future_temple.htm
According to the great sages of Israel, it is a positive commandment for the people of Israel to rebuild the Holy Temple conforming to the dimensions, characteristics and attributes of the Second Temple. Thus, although there were differences between the First and Second Temples, and vast differences between both of these and the vision of Ezekiel - it is the details of the Second Temple that are binding upon Israel for all time. This is why the majority of the Temple Institute's work and research, both in artistic representation as well as actual Temple restoration, centers on the aspects of the Second Temple.
These details and dimensions are clearly described in the Mishneh of Tractate Middot (literally, "attributes" or "measures") of the Babylonian Talmud. This tractate also includes the dimensions and layout of the Temple Mount, and discusses many matters applicable to both the Holy Temple and the Mount.
In his introduction to this tractate, the great sage Maimonides writes that its purpose is to preserve all the details of the Second Temple. This, he states, is "because when the time comes to rebuild, care should be taken to preserve these details and rebuild the Temple in the exact same manner... because it was built with Divine Inspiration. Thus the verse states, 'All this, said he, is put in writing by the hand of the L-rd who instructed me, all the works of this pattern' (II Chron. 28:19)."
"The structure of Solomon's temple is explained in the book of Kings," Maimonides states further. "When the Second Temple was originally constructed in the time of Ezra, it was built as a combination of the First Temple built by King Solomon, but including certain aspects of the things mentioned by Ezekiel, (in chapters 40-43, which were said with regard to the future Temple), as well. Herod razed the structure built by Ezra, and rebuilt it completely anew. Our sages stated: 'Whoever has never seen the building built by Herod, has never seen a beautiful building in his life'." Moreover, writes Maimonides, although the Temple that will be built in the future is written in the book of Ezekiel, it remains unexplained and unclear."
Many aspects of the Temple described by Ezekiel are difficult to comprehend, since that vision contains elements of prophetic insight which, in our generation, we do not have the spiritual or intellectual capacity to understand. For example, according to the prophecy of Ezekiel, the structure of the Third Temple will necessitate vast topographical changes in the environs of the Jerusalem. This Temple will differ drastically in size from its predecessors. According to Ezekiel's measurements, the new Temple will be so large that it will occupy the entire area of the city of Jerusalem. Ezekiel's prophecy explains that both the Temple Mount and the Mount of Olives will be enlarged and expanded in the future.
Despite the uncertainties that we temporarily face in understanding the elements of Ezekiel's prophetic revelation, we can still appreciate the fact that this prophet's teaching was part of a larger, broader tradition that he received from the earlier prophets.
Thus, it should be noted when the Second Temple was erected, its builders incorporated a number of components that were based on Ezekiel's prophecy. Everything that they were able to understand from Ezekiel's words, they included in the structure of the Second Temple.
These details include, for example, the permanent closure of the southern gate (44:2); the chambers of the Women's Court ("the courts of the incense" - 46:21); and the width of the altar (3:1).
All of those details from Ezekiel's prophecy that were not explained in the Second Temple era, remain sealed until that time when "the earth shall be filled with the knowledge of G-d, as the waters that cover the sea" (Isaiah 11:9). In the future, we shall be enlightened with a higher level of spiritual awareness and consciousness, and at that time we will have the ability to perceive the deeper meaning of all those portions of Ezekiel's vision that had heretofore been inaccessible. Until that time, it is the Second Temple's attributes that must be upheld when rebuilding the Temple. Most importantly, Israel's Divine obligation to rebuild the Holy Temple remains a constant and unchanging factor in the nation's life, throughout every generation.
On Jerry Golden's site he beleives it will be the MASONS who rebuild the Temple as it is in their mythology that they built the first one. He showd photos of numbered stones piled up ready for construction. Havent heard much else though since then.
This jumped out to me.
Zech. 2:4 who said to him,
When God is instructing Jonah about speaking to Nineveh isn't it odd that he brings up the fact that there is "lots of cattle there too?"
I was just talking about this verse in my prayer group last night
that's why l noticed the verse in Zech. you posted...
If God plugged ears and hardened hearts wouldn't you think they might be likened to a people who don't know their right hand from their left? If God hardened hearts wouldn't he want mercy more so for them? Do you think he wants us to take notice of Jonah because of that statement?
Zech. 2:4 who said to him,
QUOTE
"Run, speak to this young man, saying: 'Jerusalem shall be inhabited as towns without walls, because of the multitude of men and livestock in it.
When God is instructing Jonah about speaking to Nineveh isn't it odd that he brings up the fact that there is "lots of cattle there too?"
QUOTE
Jon 4:11 And should not I spare Nineveh, that great city, wherein are more than sixscore thousand persons that cannot discern between their right hand and their left hand; and [also] much cattle.
I was just talking about this verse in my prayer group last night
that's why l noticed the verse in Zech. you posted...
If God plugged ears and hardened hearts wouldn't you think they might be likened to a people who don't know their right hand from their left? If God hardened hearts wouldn't he want mercy more so for them? Do you think he wants us to take notice of Jonah because of that statement?
QUOTE(LoisFaith2000 @ Mar 9 2007, 10:52 PM) [snapback]104757[/snapback]
This is from The Temple Institute who have been preparing all the implements for their proposed 3rd Jewish Temple. It was interesting to see what they're take was with regards to the future Temple recorded in Ezekiel.
====================================
How do We Understand the Vision of the Future Temple as Described in the Book of Ezekiel?
http://www.templeinstitute.org/future_temple.htm
According to the great sages of Israel, it is a positive commandment for the people of Israel to rebuild the Holy Temple conforming to the dimensions, characteristics and attributes of the Second Temple. Thus, although there were differences between the First and Second Temples, and vast differences between both of these and the vision of Ezekiel - it is the details of the Second Temple that are binding upon Israel for all time. This is why the majority of the Temple Institute's work and research, both in artistic representation as well as actual Temple restoration, centers on the aspects of the Second Temple.
These details and dimensions are clearly described in the Mishneh of Tractate Middot (literally, "attributes" or "measures") of the Babylonian Talmud. This tractate also includes the dimensions and layout of the Temple Mount, and discusses many matters applicable to both the Holy Temple and the Mount.
In his introduction to this tractate, the great sage Maimonides writes that its purpose is to preserve all the details of the Second Temple. This, he states, is "because when the time comes to rebuild, care should be taken to preserve these details and rebuild the Temple in the exact same manner... because it was built with Divine Inspiration. Thus the verse states, 'All this, said he, is put in writing by the hand of the L-rd who instructed me, all the works of this pattern' (II Chron. 28:19)."
"The structure of Solomon's temple is explained in the book of Kings," Maimonides states further. "When the Second Temple was originally constructed in the time of Ezra, it was built as a combination of the First Temple built by King Solomon, but including certain aspects of the things mentioned by Ezekiel, (in chapters 40-43, which were said with regard to the future Temple), as well. Herod razed the structure built by Ezra, and rebuilt it completely anew. Our sages stated: 'Whoever has never seen the building built by Herod, has never seen a beautiful building in his life'." Moreover, writes Maimonides, although the Temple that will be built in the future is written in the book of Ezekiel, it remains unexplained and unclear."
Many aspects of the Temple described by Ezekiel are difficult to comprehend, since that vision contains elements of prophetic insight which, in our generation, we do not have the spiritual or intellectual capacity to understand. For example, according to the prophecy of Ezekiel, the structure of the Third Temple will necessitate vast topographical changes in the environs of the Jerusalem. This Temple will differ drastically in size from its predecessors. According to Ezekiel's measurements, the new Temple will be so large that it will occupy the entire area of the city of Jerusalem. Ezekiel's prophecy explains that both the Temple Mount and the Mount of Olives will be enlarged and expanded in the future.
Despite the uncertainties that we temporarily face in understanding the elements of Ezekiel's prophetic revelation, we can still appreciate the fact that this prophet's teaching was part of a larger, broader tradition that he received from the earlier prophets.
Thus, it should be noted when the Second Temple was erected, its builders incorporated a number of components that were based on Ezekiel's prophecy. Everything that they were able to understand from Ezekiel's words, they included in the structure of the Second Temple.
These details include, for example, the permanent closure of the southern gate (44:2); the chambers of the Women's Court ("the courts of the incense" - 46:21); and the width of the altar (3:1).
All of those details from Ezekiel's prophecy that were not explained in the Second Temple era, remain sealed until that time when "the earth shall be filled with the knowledge of G-d, as the waters that cover the sea" (Isaiah 11:9). In the future, we shall be enlightened with a higher level of spiritual awareness and consciousness, and at that time we will have the ability to perceive the deeper meaning of all those portions of Ezekiel's vision that had heretofore been inaccessible. Until that time, it is the Second Temple's attributes that must be upheld when rebuilding the Temple. Most importantly, Israel's Divine obligation to rebuild the Holy Temple remains a constant and unchanging factor in the nation's life, throughout every generation.
On Jerry Golden's site he beleives it will be the MASONS who rebuild the Temple as it is in their mythology that they built the first one. He showd photos of numbered stones piled up ready for construction. Havent heard much else though since then.
Thanks Lois for this info. It will take me a while to absorb it. My understanding is that orthodox judaism teaches that Ezekiels temple will be built upon the return of the Messiah although they do not fully understand how this is possible because of the dimensions of the temple. Maimonides is just one branch of Judaism which teaches that every Jew has a responsibility to work towards the rebuilding of the temple along the lines of the second temple.
I must take issue that the masons had anything to do with the building of the first temple. The design of the temple was given directly from God to David and it was built by Solomon exactly according to that design.
Which is not to say that the sham fraud of a temple which will be built in the last days will not be Masonic. I have even seen masonic designs for this temple which feature an obelisk.
QUOTE(Miki @ Mar 9 2007, 04:30 AM) [snapback]104760[/snapback]
This jumped out to me.
Zech. 2:4 who said to him,
QUOTE
"Run, speak to this young man, saying: 'Jerusalem shall be inhabited as towns without walls, because of the multitude of men and livestock in it.
When God is instructing Jonah about speaking to Nineveh isn't it odd that he brings up the fact that there is "lots of cattle there too?"
QUOTE
Jon 4:11 And should not I spare Nineveh, that great city, wherein are more than sixscore thousand persons that cannot discern between their right hand and their left hand; and [also] much cattle.
I was just talking about this verse in my prayer group last night
that's why l noticed the verse in Zech. you posted...
If God plugged ears and hardened hearts wouldn't you think they might be likened to a people who don't know their right hand from their left? If God hardened hearts wouldn't he want mercy more so for them? Do you think he wants us to take notice of Jonah because of that statement?
Yes Miki
The only difference is that those silly kids in Nineveh repented at the preaching of Jonah. Now a greater than Jonah is here and they won't listen. when the blood flows up to the horses bridles, Then they'll listen.
QUOTE(excubitor @ Mar 8 2007, 10:05 PM) [snapback]104740[/snapback]
An interesting thought occurred to me recently and that is I noticed that ALL of the people who take the time to research Ezekiels temple and draw plans and make models of it, believe that it will be made during the Millenium.
http://www.sonstoglory.com/ThirdTempleEzek...nnialTemple.htm
Perhaps God will reward these men by giving them important roles in the construction and administration of the temple during the millenium. How fantastic to think that God will dwell there for 1000 uninterrupted years.
I can't wait to see it and walk in its courts and see the kings of all nations coming up to worship the Lord there.
People who don't believe that Ezekiels temple is millenial basically ignore all of those many chapters which describe it and do not believe it will be built at all. Or else they believe it is all symbolic.
I notice the following passages:
Ezekiel 42:13 Then said he unto me, The north chambers and the south chambers, which are before the separate place, they be holy chambers, where the priests that approach unto the LORD shall eat the most holy things: there shall they lay the most holy things, and the meat offering, and the sin offering, and the trespass offering; for the place is holy.
Ezekiel 43:20 And thou shalt take of the blood thereof, and put it on the four horns of it, and on the four corners of the settle, and upon the border round about: thus shalt thou cleanse and purge it. 21 Thou shalt take the bullock also of the sin offering, and he shall burn it in the appointed place of the house, without the sanctuary. 22 And on the second day thou shalt offer a kid of the goats without blemish for a sin offering; and they shall cleanse the altar, as they did cleanse it with the bullock. 23 When thou hast made an end of cleansing it, thou shalt offer a young bullock without blemish, and a ram out of the flock without blemish. 24 And thou shalt offer them before the LORD, and the priests shall cast salt upon them, and they shall offer them up for a burnt offering unto the LORD. 25 Seven days shalt thou prepare every day a goat for a sin offering: they shall also prepare a young bullock, and a ram out of the flock, without blemish. 26 Seven days shall they purge the altar and purify it; and they shall consecrate themselves. 27 And when these days are expired, it shall be, that upon the eighth day, and so forward, the priests shall make your burnt offerings upon the altar, and your peace offerings; and I will accept you, saith the Lord GOD.
Ezekiel 45:15 And one lamb out of the flock, out of two hundred, out of the fat pastures of Israel; for a meat offering, and for a burnt offering, and for peace offerings, to make reconciliation for them, saith the Lord GOD. 16 All the people of the land shall give this oblation for the prince in Israel. 17 And it shall be the prince's part to give burnt offerings, and meat offerings, and drink offerings, in the feasts, and in the new moons, and in the sabbaths, in all solemnities of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the sin offering, and the meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the house of Israel.
There are other verses that pertain to other offerings as well.
I post these because a strictly literal interpretation of all of this leads me to question...why? Isn't Jesus' sacrifice on the cross the final atonement for sin? What's the need for all the continual bloodshed of goats, bullocks, rams, etc.? During the millenium, will the Jews be required to keep all of the ordinances of the law and sacrifices for sin?
I suppose the sacrifices could be done on behalf of the non-Christians (non-spiritual Jews) of the world during the millenium. After all, they will be subject to sin. As kings and priests, will Christians have the privilege of serving Jesus in this manner?
Bearing in mind that we are "joint-heirs" with Jesus, if this temple is really built, and the nations which are not in Christ offer sacrifices, I wonder what exactly our place will be in this time period?
Any attempted interpretation of Ezekiel 40-48 needs to be done with great care, prayer, and seeking of the Lord's guidance in scripture. It may be well beyond anything that's been postulated in this thread.
In Christ,
Mike
QUOTE
Hbr 7:26 For such an high priest became us, [who is] holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;
Hbr 7:27 Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did[size=3] once[/size], when he offered up himself.
Hbr 7:27 Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did[size=3] once[/size], when he offered up himself.
QUOTE
Hbr 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
QUOTE
Hbr 10:8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and [offering] for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure [therein]; which are offered by the law;
QUOTE
Hbr 7:19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope [did]; by the which we draw nigh unto God.
QUOTE
Hbr 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
By ONE offering he hath perfected fore ever them that are sanctified. That includes past, present and future. No more sacrifices ordained by God. Its done...Jesus said :It is finished.
You are the temple of God:We are together the temple and also individually
QUOTE
1Cr 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and [that] the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
QUOTE
1Cr 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost [which is] in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
You are also the vessels of the temple:
QUOTE
Rom 9:23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
QUOTE
2Cr 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.
2Ti 2:20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.
2Ti 2:20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.
The nations come to the temple of God, to the New Jerusalem (the Bride)
QUOTE
Mat 5:14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
Hbr 11:9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as [in] a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:
Hbr 11:10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker [is] God.
Hbr 11:9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as [in] a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:
Hbr 11:10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker [is] God.
QUOTE
Rev 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, [which is] new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and [I will write upon him] my new name.
Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
She is coming out of heaven , not because the city is floating down literally, but she has been seated in heavenly places all this time.Eph 2:6 And hath raised [us] up together, and made [us] sit together in heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus: The Bride has authority, she is seated in the heavenlies together with Jesus.
The Jews might be building a temple. but it will not be the temple of God. Scripture is very clear about that. The time for temple and sacrifice (real stone and real animals and God dwelling there, is over...God is done with that)
We have to look beyond the letter....it killeth...but the spirit gives life.
QUOTE
2Cr 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
C
QUOTE(C @ Mar 10 2007, 12:53 PM) [snapback]104857[/snapback]
QUOTE
2Cr 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
C
Exactly. There's way more than meets the eye.
QUOTE
20 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us, 21 Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.
Thanks, Paul. I couldn't have said it better myself.
In Christ,
Mike
Eze 46:1 Thus saith the Lord GOD; The gate of the inner court that looketh toward the east shall be shut the six working days; but on the sabbath it shall be opened, and in the day of the new moon it shall be opened.
One day=1000 years . So for 6000 years this has been shut. We are now in the beginning of the 7th day(Sabbath)
I just want to look at something with you:
Eze 9:2 And, behold, six men came from the way of the higher gate, which lieth toward the north, and every man a slaughter weapon in his hand; and one man among them [was] clothed with linen, with a writer's inkhorn by his side: and they went in, and stood beside the brasen altar.
Eze 40:5 And behold a wall on the outside of the house round about, and in the man's hand a measuring reed of six cubits [long] by the cubit and an hand breadth: so he measured the breadth of the building, one reed; and the height, one reed.
Eze 40:12 The space also before the little chambers [was] one cubit [on this side], and the space [was] one cubit on that side: and the little chambers [were] six cubits on this side, and six cubits on that side.
Eze 41:1 Afterward he brought me to the temple, and measured the posts, six cubits broad on the one side, and six cubits broad on the other side, [which was] the breadth of the tabernacle.
Eze 41:3 Then went he inward, and measured the post of the door, two cubits; and the door, six cubits; and the breadth of the door, seven cubits.
Eze 41:5 After he measured the wall of the house, six cubits; and the breadth of [every] side chamber, four cubits, round about the house on every side.
Eze 41:8 I saw also the height of the house round about: the foundations of the side chambers [were] a full reed of six great cubits.
Eze 46:1 Thus saith the Lord GOD; The gate of the inner court that looketh toward the east shall be shut the six working days; but on the sabbath it shall be opened, and in the day of the new moon it shall be opened.
Eze 46:4 And the burnt offering that the prince shall offer unto the LORD in the sabbath day [shall be] six lambs without blemish, and a ram without blemish.
Eze 46:6 And in the day of the new moon [it shall be] a young bullock without blemish, and six lambs, and a ram: they shall be without blemish.
Eze 4:11 Thou shalt drink also water by measure, the sixth part of an hin: from time to time shalt thou drink.
Eze 8:1 And it came to pass in the sixth year, in the sixth [month], in the fifth [day] of the month, [as] I sat in mine house, and the elders of Judah sat before me, that the hand of the Lord GOD fell there upon me.
Why all these sixes?
...........................................
Jhn 2:20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
40=testing
God has been building and testing"Forty" (40) His church /temple
for "and six" For 6000 years.
He rests on the seventh day ...so the temple is done.
C
One day=1000 years . So for 6000 years this has been shut. We are now in the beginning of the 7th day(Sabbath)
I just want to look at something with you:
Eze 9:2 And, behold, six men came from the way of the higher gate, which lieth toward the north, and every man a slaughter weapon in his hand; and one man among them [was] clothed with linen, with a writer's inkhorn by his side: and they went in, and stood beside the brasen altar.
Eze 40:5 And behold a wall on the outside of the house round about, and in the man's hand a measuring reed of six cubits [long] by the cubit and an hand breadth: so he measured the breadth of the building, one reed; and the height, one reed.
Eze 40:12 The space also before the little chambers [was] one cubit [on this side], and the space [was] one cubit on that side: and the little chambers [were] six cubits on this side, and six cubits on that side.
Eze 41:1 Afterward he brought me to the temple, and measured the posts, six cubits broad on the one side, and six cubits broad on the other side, [which was] the breadth of the tabernacle.
Eze 41:3 Then went he inward, and measured the post of the door, two cubits; and the door, six cubits; and the breadth of the door, seven cubits.
Eze 41:5 After he measured the wall of the house, six cubits; and the breadth of [every] side chamber, four cubits, round about the house on every side.
Eze 41:8 I saw also the height of the house round about: the foundations of the side chambers [were] a full reed of six great cubits.
Eze 46:1 Thus saith the Lord GOD; The gate of the inner court that looketh toward the east shall be shut the six working days; but on the sabbath it shall be opened, and in the day of the new moon it shall be opened.
Eze 46:4 And the burnt offering that the prince shall offer unto the LORD in the sabbath day [shall be] six lambs without blemish, and a ram without blemish.
Eze 46:6 And in the day of the new moon [it shall be] a young bullock without blemish, and six lambs, and a ram: they shall be without blemish.
Eze 4:11 Thou shalt drink also water by measure, the sixth part of an hin: from time to time shalt thou drink.
Eze 8:1 And it came to pass in the sixth year, in the sixth [month], in the fifth [day] of the month, [as] I sat in mine house, and the elders of Judah sat before me, that the hand of the Lord GOD fell there upon me.
Why all these sixes?
...........................................
Jhn 2:20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
40=testing
God has been building and testing"Forty" (40) His church /temple
for "and six" For 6000 years.
He rests on the seventh day ...so the temple is done.
C
It seems to me that the sacrifices of old was a shadow (future) of Christ's sacrifice. Perhaps the Ezekiel temple sacrifices serve as a memorial (past remembrance)
The only thing that messes that theory up is The Lord's supper of the bread and wine when he said "as often as you do this do it in remembrance of me" so maybe these sacrifices are for the Jews after the fulness of the gentiles is complete?
The only thing that messes that theory up is The Lord's supper of the bread and wine when he said "as often as you do this do it in remembrance of me" so maybe these sacrifices are for the Jews after the fulness of the gentiles is complete?
Ezekiel's temple is another shadow.
This also messes up that theory :Hbr 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
See? forever...
Ask this: Why would God need another animal sacrifice, if Jesus came with the perfect one?
If we believe differently, we declare that His sacrifice was flawed, because now the Jews might need another (by implication BETTER) sacrifice, that is provided by animals???
Them that are sanctified are the 'called out ones" the church , the body of Christ. There is only one body of Christ..in this body we find Jew and Gentile.
Eph 2:11 ¶ Wherefore remember, that ye [being] in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
Eph 2:14 ¶ For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition [between us];
Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, [even] the law of commandments [contained] in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, [so] making peace;
Eph 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
See? no more special deal for them, it is by the cross that they become part of this body of Christ.
God will open their eyes and lead them to Christ in repentance. They need to be washed in the blood of the Lamb, just like we were.
C
This also messes up that theory :Hbr 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
See? forever...
Ask this: Why would God need another animal sacrifice, if Jesus came with the perfect one?
If we believe differently, we declare that His sacrifice was flawed, because now the Jews might need another (by implication BETTER) sacrifice, that is provided by animals???
Them that are sanctified are the 'called out ones" the church , the body of Christ. There is only one body of Christ..in this body we find Jew and Gentile.
Eph 2:11 ¶ Wherefore remember, that ye [being] in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
Eph 2:14 ¶ For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition [between us];
Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, [even] the law of commandments [contained] in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, [so] making peace;
Eph 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
See? no more special deal for them, it is by the cross that they become part of this body of Christ.
God will open their eyes and lead them to Christ in repentance. They need to be washed in the blood of the Lamb, just like we were.
C
Right, I agree. I was just trying to understand why there are the slaughter of animals in the millenial temple. The slaughter of animals is not considered a sacrifice when we kill them for food, so maybe it is not a sacrifice, but just a memorial type of thing, like a celebration. That's what I was trying to figure out.
I guess I should have put it this way:
It seems to me that the sacrifices of old was a shadow (future) of Christ's sacrifice. Perhaps the Ezekiel templesacrifices "slaughter of animals" serves as a memorial (past remembrance)
I guess I should have put it this way:
It seems to me that the sacrifices of old was a shadow (future) of Christ's sacrifice. Perhaps the Ezekiel temple
QUOTE(bonomike @ Mar 11 2007, 03:49 AM) [snapback]104849[/snapback]
QUOTE(excubitor @ Mar 8 2007, 10:05 PM) [snapback]104740[/snapback]
An interesting thought occurred to me recently and that is I noticed that ALL of the people who take the time to research Ezekiels temple and draw plans and make models of it, believe that it will be made during the Millenium.
http://www.sonstoglory.com/ThirdTempleEzek...nnialTemple.htm
Perhaps God will reward these men by giving them important roles in the construction and administration of the temple during the millenium. How fantastic to think that God will dwell there for 1000 uninterrupted years.
I can't wait to see it and walk in its courts and see the kings of all nations coming up to worship the Lord there.
People who don't believe that Ezekiels temple is millenial basically ignore all of those many chapters which describe it and do not believe it will be built at all. Or else they believe it is all symbolic.
I notice the following passages:
Ezekiel 42:13 Then said he unto me, The north chambers and the south chambers, which are before the separate place, they be holy chambers, where the priests that approach unto the LORD shall eat the most holy things: there shall they lay the most holy things, and the meat offering, and the sin offering, and the trespass offering; for the place is holy.
Ezekiel 43:20 And thou shalt take of the blood thereof, and put it on the four horns of it, and on the four corners of the settle, and upon the border round about: thus shalt thou cleanse and purge it. 21 Thou shalt take the bullock also of the sin offering, and he shall burn it in the appointed place of the house, without the sanctuary. 22 And on the second day thou shalt offer a kid of the goats without blemish for a sin offering; and they shall cleanse the altar, as they did cleanse it with the bullock. 23 When thou hast made an end of cleansing it, thou shalt offer a young bullock without blemish, and a ram out of the flock without blemish. 24 And thou shalt offer them before the LORD, and the priests shall cast salt upon them, and they shall offer them up for a burnt offering unto the LORD. 25 Seven days shalt thou prepare every day a goat for a sin offering: they shall also prepare a young bullock, and a ram out of the flock, without blemish. 26 Seven days shall they purge the altar and purify it; and they shall consecrate themselves. 27 And when these days are expired, it shall be, that upon the eighth day, and so forward, the priests shall make your burnt offerings upon the altar, and your peace offerings; and I will accept you, saith the Lord GOD.
Ezekiel 45:15 And one lamb out of the flock, out of two hundred, out of the fat pastures of Israel; for a meat offering, and for a burnt offering, and for peace offerings, to make reconciliation for them, saith the Lord GOD. 16 All the people of the land shall give this oblation for the prince in Israel. 17 And it shall be the prince's part to give burnt offerings, and meat offerings, and drink offerings, in the feasts, and in the new moons, and in the sabbaths, in all solemnities of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the sin offering, and the meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the house of Israel.
There are other verses that pertain to other offerings as well.
I post these because a strictly literal interpretation of all of this leads me to question...why? Isn't Jesus' sacrifice on the cross the final atonement for sin? What's the need for all the continual bloodshed of goats, bullocks, rams, etc.? During the millenium, will the Jews be required to keep all of the ordinances of the law and sacrifices for sin?
I suppose the sacrifices could be done on behalf of the non-Christians (non-spiritual Jews) of the world during the millenium. After all, they will be subject to sin. As kings and priests, will Christians have the privilege of serving Jesus in this manner?
Bearing in mind that we are "joint-heirs" with Jesus, if this temple is really built, and the nations which are not in Christ offer sacrifices, I wonder what exactly our place will be in this time period?
Any attempted interpretation of Ezekiel 40-48 needs to be done with great care, prayer, and seeking of the Lord's guidance in scripture. It may be well beyond anything that's been postulated in this thread.
In Christ,
Mike
In fact the animal sacrifices were completely ineffective at remediating sin as is made plain in
Hebrews 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
So why then did God insist upon them in the first place long ago? Paul explains:
Heb 10:1For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. 2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. 3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
So even the original sacrificial system was not for the forgiving of sins, but was a reminder of sin. Most importantly it was a foreshadowing of the sacrifice to come which is Christ's sacrifice on the cross.
In the millenium the sacrifice will also be a reminder of sin. Sin will not utterly be purged during the millenium. This does not happen until the end of the 1000 years when sin, death and hell are cast into the lake of fire. When the devil is released from his prison he will tap into that festering pit of sin deep in the heart of sinful man and lead an enormous rebellion against Christ. The sacrifice will be a reminder to the people of this festering sinful heart of the flesh and a constant reminder of the enemy lurking and ready to pounce. Most of all however it will be a constant remembrance of the sacrifice which Christ made upon the cross.
That sounds like a very reasonable explanation to me. Good job.
QUOTE(excubitor @ Mar 10 2007, 02:17 PM) [snapback]104882[/snapback]
QUOTE(bonomike @ Mar 11 2007, 03:49 AM) [snapback]104849[/snapback]
QUOTE(excubitor @ Mar 8 2007, 10:05 PM) [snapback]104740[/snapback]
An interesting thought occurred to me recently and that is I noticed that ALL of the people who take the time to research Ezekiels temple and draw plans and make models of it, believe that it will be made during the Millenium.
http://www.sonstoglory.com/ThirdTempleEzek...nnialTemple.htm
Perhaps God will reward these men by giving them important roles in the construction and administration of the temple during the millenium. How fantastic to think that God will dwell there for 1000 uninterrupted years.
I can't wait to see it and walk in its courts and see the kings of all nations coming up to worship the Lord there.
People who don't believe that Ezekiels temple is millenial basically ignore all of those many chapters which describe it and do not believe it will be built at all. Or else they believe it is all symbolic.
I notice the following passages:
Ezekiel 42:13 Then said he unto me, The north chambers and the south chambers, which are before the separate place, they be holy chambers, where the priests that approach unto the LORD shall eat the most holy things: there shall they lay the most holy things, and the meat offering, and the sin offering, and the trespass offering; for the place is holy.
Ezekiel 43:20 And thou shalt take of the blood thereof, and put it on the four horns of it, and on the four corners of the settle, and upon the border round about: thus shalt thou cleanse and purge it. 21 Thou shalt take the bullock also of the sin offering, and he shall burn it in the appointed place of the house, without the sanctuary. 22 And on the second day thou shalt offer a kid of the goats without blemish for a sin offering; and they shall cleanse the altar, as they did cleanse it with the bullock. 23 When thou hast made an end of cleansing it, thou shalt offer a young bullock without blemish, and a ram out of the flock without blemish. 24 And thou shalt offer them before the LORD, and the priests shall cast salt upon them, and they shall offer them up for a burnt offering unto the LORD. 25 Seven days shalt thou prepare every day a goat for a sin offering: they shall also prepare a young bullock, and a ram out of the flock, without blemish. 26 Seven days shall they purge the altar and purify it; and they shall consecrate themselves. 27 And when these days are expired, it shall be, that upon the eighth day, and so forward, the priests shall make your burnt offerings upon the altar, and your peace offerings; and I will accept you, saith the Lord GOD.
Ezekiel 45:15 And one lamb out of the flock, out of two hundred, out of the fat pastures of Israel; for a meat offering, and for a burnt offering, and for peace offerings, to make reconciliation for them, saith the Lord GOD. 16 All the people of the land shall give this oblation for the prince in Israel. 17 And it shall be the prince's part to give burnt offerings, and meat offerings, and drink offerings, in the feasts, and in the new moons, and in the sabbaths, in all solemnities of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the sin offering, and the meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the house of Israel.
There are other verses that pertain to other offerings as well.
I post these because a strictly literal interpretation of all of this leads me to question...why? Isn't Jesus' sacrifice on the cross the final atonement for sin? What's the need for all the continual bloodshed of goats, bullocks, rams, etc.? During the millenium, will the Jews be required to keep all of the ordinances of the law and sacrifices for sin?
I suppose the sacrifices could be done on behalf of the non-Christians (non-spiritual Jews) of the world during the millenium. After all, they will be subject to sin. As kings and priests, will Christians have the privilege of serving Jesus in this manner?
Bearing in mind that we are "joint-heirs" with Jesus, if this temple is really built, and the nations which are not in Christ offer sacrifices, I wonder what exactly our place will be in this time period?
Any attempted interpretation of Ezekiel 40-48 needs to be done with great care, prayer, and seeking of the Lord's guidance in scripture. It may be well beyond anything that's been postulated in this thread.
In Christ,
Mike
In fact the animal sacrifices were completely ineffective at remediating sin as is made plain in
Hebrews 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
So why then did God insist upon them in the first place long ago? Paul explains:
Heb 10:1For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. 2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. 3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
So even the original sacrificial system was not for the forgiving of sins, but was a reminder of sin. Most importantly it was a foreshadowing of the sacrifice to come which is Christ's sacrifice on the cross.
In the millenium the sacrifice will also be a reminder of sin. Sin will not utterly be purged during the millenium. This does not happen until the end of the 1000 years when sin, death and hell are cast into the lake of fire. When the devil is released from his prison he will tap into that festering pit of sin deep in the heart of sinful man and lead an enormous rebellion against Christ. The sacrifice will be a reminder to the people of this festering sinful heart of the flesh and a constant reminder of the enemy lurking and ready to pounce. Most of all however it will be a constant remembrance of the sacrifice which Christ made upon the cross.
There will be no more killing in the millennial kingdom at all. The Sacrificial Lamb Himself will be there teaching those who have not known.
Revelation 7
17 for the Lamb who is in the midst of the throne will shepherd them and lead them to living fountains of waters. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes."
Isaiah 4
2 In that day the Branch of the Lord shall be beautiful and glorious; And the fruit of the earth shall be excellent and appealing For those of Israel who have escaped.
3 And it shall come to pass that he who is left in Zion and remains in Jerusalem will be called holy--everyone who is recorded among the living in Jerusalem.
4 When the Lord has washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion, and purged the blood of Jerusalem from her midst, by the spirit of judgment and by the spirit of burning,
5 then the Lord will create above every dwelling place of Mount Zion, and above her assemblies, a cloud and smoke by day and the shining of a flaming fire by night. For over all the glory there will be a covering.
6 And there will be a tabernacle for shade in the daytime from the heat, for a place of refuge, and for a shelter from storm and rain.
Ezekiel 34
26 I will make them and the places all around My hill a blessing; and I will cause showers to come down in their season; there shall be showers of blessing.
27 Then the trees of the field shall yield their fruit, and the earth shall yield her increase. They shall be safe in their land; and they shall know that I am the Lord, when I have broken the bands of their yoke and delivered them from the hand of those who enslaved them.
28 And they shall no longer be a prey for the nations, nor shall beasts of the land devour them; but they shall dwell safely, and no one shall make them afraid.
29 I will raise up for them a garden of renown, and they shall no longer be consumed with hunger in the land, nor bear the shame of the Gentiles anymore.
30 Thus they shall know that I, the Lord their God, am with them, and they, the house of Israel, are My people," says the Lord God.' "
31 You are My flock, the flock of My pasture; you are men, and I am your God," says the Lord God.
QUOTE(excubitor @ Mar 8 2007, 11:05 PM) [snapback]104740[/snapback]
People who don't believe that Ezekiels temple is millenial basically ignore all of those many chapters which describe it and do not believe it will be built at all. Or else they believe it is all symbolic.
Why do yo ucall them ignorant of the many chapters? is it possible that they read the chapter details maybe a little better than you did?
Just think for a few moments as an initial investigation....
Go back to the very beginning of the temple chapters and start rreading for crtain clues....
1. To whom was the ezekiel temple instructions given to?
2. To whom wa this person to give those instructions to?
3. Was there a condition that came with it? a blessing or something?
4. Skip forward and consider the application that no uncircumcized individual is or will be allowed in. That wil leave most of you all our who are men since it is a physical circumcision and the epistles of paul are not going to be made nought because of some legalistic viewpoint. Christ becomes nothing to those who are circumcised in teh flesh, believing it gains you entry intot he kingdom of God, yet here, it is arequirement.... thus, for those who think Chrsit is going to teach those who were not taught or could not be taught before, they are also blaspheming the spirit by believing the spirit sent forth, the spirit of His only son was not sufficient in causing a sould to repent, rather, his physical presence will, thus you are trumping the spirit as not being all powerful, just partially.....
the ezekiel temple is not symbolic.. the words there are not. However, as God told Moses to make a pattern of what he saw in the heavenlies on earth, we can kow that any temple would have also followed similar pattern sa we have seen thruou the Old TEstament. So, in fact, ALL TEMPLES were all patterns of something else! They pointed to something else...
SEcondly, the ezekiel temple was given t be presented and IF they accepted it's plans given by a certain someone (above), then it owuld have occured, it was a test of faith of God's people, We know his people FAILED. the later books of Nehemiah and others atest tot eh faithlessness of His people, in fact, the actual temple that was built and later improved upon by Herod was just that, a failure of God's people to have faith....
The temple was a blessing that never happened NOR will it ever happen. Do not be so quick to call out people as being ignorant of certain chapters when in fact, the rreality is, others are ignorant of reading certain parts of those chapters for exactly what they say.
You all claim literalness, a literal temple, you don't want symbolic, neither does the text assume symbolic, it is literal. But when it comes to certain things , details, you all push thos texts aside as allogorical or symbolic or meant for another to fulfill, going totally contrary to the texts themselves....
Be a berean and search deeper into the texts, not get so caught up on the details of the building itself and miss that it can't happen unless certain requirements were first met....
NExt, some individuals have started to quote passages from th old TEstament that gives detail so waht they presume is the millenium such as "in that day" quotes.... Unfortunately, they haven't studied, and are also ignorant of many passages that speak of messiah that are tied into "on that day" or "in that day" and how many were tied into NT prophecy fulfillments....
You all also assume there are three groups of people. Those who accept Christ, those who do not and are damned and then those who do not but get some second chance, thus God plays favorites. That is so ingrained and given excuse after blind excuse as to why some of you believe this, that it is impossible to just get into that subject on one post.... You all find what yo uthink are unfulfilled prophecies and neatly place everything, understood or not, into some future millenium. lets take the temple, stick it into the millenium cuz it hasn't happened yet. lets take all these prophecies regarding Israel and place them in some future millenium cuz again, they remain unfulfilled. But then NEGLECT to see that the Holy ones that come out of jerusalem in that day were the first church to whom ALL of the prophecies regarding israel went to, the nation was seperated out, the good and the evil and the godod, the oily ones became called out, seperated out and became known as the church, the NT attests to so so so so many OT promises given to israel and israel Alone used for the church. I wonder who is playiing replacement theology? sonds like God is. Becasue in fact, there was NO replacement. out of national israel, only a remnant EVER were called out as holy, as in Elijah's day, as in the days of the early church, and so to, today!....
Claiming the promises of Abraham because of circumcision did Israel nothing, claiming Moses does israel nothing today. those who held on to their imaginatry understandings, their phariseeic national militaristic approach to jerusalem all died in 70 AD and 135 AD. they were wiped out... the expectations that were phariseeic are alive today in premillenialism and the ezekiel temple is just one more thing they think will happen, yet, when yo ureally study the text, it is IMPOSSIBLE for it to happen sa the text states, the time peirod for it's building is gone. Why? Cuz the messenger died 2500 years ago and the people to whom hte message was given to died 2500 years ago and they failed miserably. You can't claim tha which is lost by trying to renew the words as symbolic, yet everything else is literal... That is playing games with the text....
Prove from the text that it is futuristic and never meant for the days the words were given in. Find direct proof of this.. FIND IT.....
Something straightforward and direct. Don't take a heavenly temple in Revelation and make it into some ;pysical temple and claim it is ezekiels, there is no tie in...
I assume yo uall claim there are two temples to be built. on during some tribulation, and then one right afterwards.. I guess two in a matter of 7 years or so? Both reverting to shadow?
QUOTE(apostolic-church @ Mar 11 2007, 10:08 AM) [snapback]104958[/snapback]
QUOTE(excubitor @ Mar 8 2007, 11:05 PM) [snapback]104740[/snapback]
People who don't believe that Ezekiels temple is millenial basically ignore all of those many chapters which describe it and do not believe it will be built at all. Or else they believe it is all symbolic.
Why do yo ucall them ignorant of the many chapters? is it possible that they read the chapter details maybe a little better than you did?
Just think for a few moments as an initial investigation....
Go back to the very beginning of the temple chapters and start rreading for crtain clues....
1. To whom was the ezekiel temple instructions given to?
2. To whom wa this person to give those instructions to?
3. Was there a condition that came with it? a blessing or something?
4. Skip forward and consider the application that no uncircumcized individual is or will be allowed in. That wil leave most of you all our who are men since it is a physical circumcision and the epistles of paul are not going to be made nought because of some legalistic viewpoint. Christ becomes nothing to those who are circumcised in teh flesh, believing it gains you entry intot he kingdom of God, yet here, it is arequirement.... thus, for those who think Chrsit is going to teach those who were not taught or could not be taught before, they are also blaspheming the spirit by believing the spirit sent forth, the spirit of His only son was not sufficient in causing a sould to repent, rather, his physical presence will, thus you are trumping the spirit as not being all powerful, just partially.....
the ezekiel temple is not symbolic.. the words there are not. However, as God told Moses to make a pattern of what he saw in the heavenlies on earth, we can kow that any temple would have also followed similar pattern sa we have seen thruou the Old TEstament. So, in fact, ALL TEMPLES were all patterns of something else! They pointed to something else...
SEcondly, the ezekiel temple was given t be presented and IF they accepted it's plans given by a certain someone (above), then it owuld have occured, it was a test of faith of God's people, We know his people FAILED. the later books of Nehemiah and others atest tot eh faithlessness of His people, in fact, the actual temple that was built and later improved upon by Herod was just that, a failure of God's people to have faith....
The temple was a blessing that never happened NOR will it ever happen. Do not be so quick to call out people as being ignorant of certain chapters when in fact, the rreality is, others are ignorant of reading certain parts of those chapters for exactly what they say.
You all claim literalness, a literal temple, you don't want symbolic, neither does the text assume symbolic, it is literal. But when it comes to certain things , details, you all push thos texts aside as allogorical or symbolic or meant for another to fulfill, going totally contrary to the texts themselves....
Be a berean and search deeper into the texts, not get so caught up on the details of the building itself and miss that it can't happen unless certain requirements were first met....
NExt, some individuals have started to quote passages from th old TEstament that gives detail so waht they presume is the millenium such as "in that day" quotes.... Unfortunately, they haven't studied, and are also ignorant of many passages that speak of messiah that are tied into "on that day" or "in that day" and how many were tied into NT prophecy fulfillments....
You all also assume there are three groups of people. Those who accept Christ, those who do not and are damned and then those who do not but get some second chance, thus God plays favorites. That is so ingrained and given excuse after blind excuse as to why some of you believe this, that it is impossible to just get into that subject on one post.... You all find what yo uthink are unfulfilled prophecies and neatly place everything, understood or not, into some future millenium. lets take the temple, stick it into the millenium cuz it hasn't happened yet. lets take all these prophecies regarding Israel and place them in some future millenium cuz again, they remain unfulfilled. But then NEGLECT to see that the Holy ones that come out of jerusalem in that day were the first church to whom ALL of the prophecies regarding israel went to, the nation was seperated out, the good and the evil and the godod, the oily ones became called out, seperated out and became known as the church, the NT attests to so so so so many OT promises given to israel and israel Alone used for the church. I wonder who is playiing replacement theology? sonds like God is. Becasue in fact, there was NO replacement. out of national israel, only a remnant EVER were called out as holy, as in Elijah's day, as in the days of the early church, and so to, today!....
Claiming the promises of Abraham because of circumcision did Israel nothing, claiming Moses does israel nothing today. those who held on to their imaginatry understandings, their phariseeic national militaristic approach to jerusalem all died in 70 AD and 135 AD. they were wiped out... the expectations that were phariseeic are alive today in premillenialism and the ezekiel temple is just one more thing they think will happen, yet, when yo ureally study the text, it is IMPOSSIBLE for it to happen sa the text states, the time peirod for it's building is gone. Why? Cuz the messenger died 2500 years ago and the people to whom hte message was given to died 2500 years ago and they failed miserably. You can't claim tha which is lost by trying to renew the words as symbolic, yet everything else is literal... That is playing games with the text....
Prove from the text that it is futuristic and never meant for the days the words were given in. Find direct proof of this.. FIND IT.....
Something straightforward and direct. Don't take a heavenly temple in Revelation and make it into some ;pysical temple and claim it is ezekiels, there is no tie in...
I assume yo uall claim there are two temples to be built. on during some tribulation, and then one right afterwards.. I guess two in a matter of 7 years or so? Both reverting to shadow?
Very good post, apostolic-church. Another part of this entire issue involves one's understanding of Daniel 9. The futurists' belief that verse 27 deals with some Anti-Christ contributes to their insistence upon a yet future temple. But Daniel 9:27 speaks of Christ not Anti-Christ!--He is the one who confirmed a covenant--the new covenant in His blood. He is the One who put an end to "sacrifice and offering" through His death on the cross and culminating in the destruction of the Temple in AD 70.
Is it not a slap in the face of Our Lord and Savior and do we not put Him to open shame when we teach that He will some day sit upon an earthly throne--He who shed His perfect blood for His sheep--and watch innocent lambs be slaughtered (360,000 in 1,000 years)? Certainly, He would never allow such an abomination! It is understandable that "Jews" today or of some yet future generation would not mind insulting our Lord by the offering of such sacrifices, but it is mind boggling to me that so many in the church today long passionately for the reinstitution of blood sacrifices and offerings when, according to Scripture, God never took pleasure in such sacrifices which could never take away sins? Furthermore, does such death and blood shed fit the atmosphere of the kingdom--"They shall not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain" (Isa. 11:9). Also, did not Christ institute the Lord's supper as the means for remembrance?
Another thing to remember is that Ezekiel's vision is of something still future to HIM. The student of God's Word should always look for the nearest time frame for a prophecy lest they overlook its fulfillment. Why do so many overlook the spiritual nature of the "temple" which is clearly presented in the NT? Moses, Ezekiel and John were all "taken up" to receive their visions--Moses received the details for the Tabernacle; David received the details of the earthly Temple; John received the details of the spiritual temple (the Bride of Christ). Both the physical and the spiritual co-existed for a time until God through the Roman armies removed forever the former. Thus the "old heavens and the old earth" (Old Covenant) were replaced by the "new heavens and the new earth" (New Covenant).
It is rivers of living, healing waters (Ezekiel 47:9; Revelation 22:1-2; Zechariah 14:8; see also John chapters 1, 4, and 7) which flow out of NEW Jerusalem, not sacrificial blood!
At the time the writer of Hebrews wrote, the Old Covenant with its types and shadows (and blood sacrifices) was already passing away and becoming obsolete (Heb. 8). Those first-century Jews missed all of this because they looked for a physical fulfillment for that which clearly was of a spiritual nature. Christians today are doing as those pre-AD 70 Jews did by looking for a rebuilt temple and a physical Messiah to sit upon a physical throne to rule this earth! And, sadly, they do not realize the great damage they do to the character and nature of Christ and His once-for-all, eternal sacrifice for sin.
Again, great post, apostolic-church!
Preterist
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