Replacement Theology Revealed
By Scott A. Keisler, DaysofNoah.org
view the original article here


Introduction

Replacement Theology "is the view that the church is the new or true Israel that has permanently replaced or superseded Israel as the people of God."[1] This Ecclesiological position is known by varying names including Supersessionism, Covenant Theology, and Restoration Theology, and is also the prevailing view of the Kingdom Now / Dominion Theology movement. This position, that the Church 'replaces' Israel while inheriting the covenant blessings of Abraham, is widespread among main-line denominational churches in America. Though the statistics are a bit dated, the following list may help to illustrate the predominance of Replacement Theology in the United States. The name of the Church / denomination is followed by the estimated number of U.S. adherents as of 2004[ii]:

The Roman Catholic Church - 66,407,105
The United Methodist Church - 8,251,042
Evangelical Lutheran Church in America - 5,038,006
Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) - 3,407,329
The Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod - 2,512,714
African Methodist Episcopal Church - 2,500,000
The Episcopal Church - 2,333,628
Churches of Christ, Corsicana, Texas - 1,500,000
Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America - 1,500,000
African Methodist Episcopal Zion Church - 1,430,795
United Church of Christ - 1,330,985
Christian Churches and Churches of Christ, Joplin, Mo. - 1,071,616

Represented in this list are nearly 100 million Americans and 12 of the largest 23 Church bodies in the United States. (My list excludes the LDS Church and the Jehovah's Witnesses, though technically they too espouse Replacement Theology.) By comparison, the list's remaining 11 Church denominations, who traditionally reject Replacement Theology, claim only 43.2 million members.[iii] Grant Jeffrey is correct when he asserts that "there is a major division growing between churches and denominations over Israel's role in God's plan today."[iv]

This essay will seek to demonstrate the following: (1) Replacement Theology is the theological rational behind two millennia of murderous anti-Semitism. (2) One's view of Replacement Theology will inevitably affect one's view of Ecclesiology (view of the Church) and Eschatology (view of the Last Things). (3) Fundamentally, to embrace Replacement Theology is to impugn God's character. (4) The fanatical anti-Semitism behind radical Islam is the logical conclusion of Islam's own brand of Replacement Theology.


From Augustine to Auschwitz

It may sound unreasonable at first, but Replacement Theology played a major part in paving the way towards Hitler's holocaust. The story begins all the way back during the days of the early Church. (What follows is admittedly greatly over-simplified.) According to Dr. Thomas Ice, around AD 160 Justin Martyr was the first to espouse the view that "the Christian church [is] 'the true spiritual Israel.'"[v] Taking the next step down the slippery slope was the hugely influential theologian and scholar Origen (185- ca.254 AD). Origen began to develop a system of allegorizing the Scriptures - rejecting the literal hermeneutics of other Church Fathers.[vi] Origen's allegorical approach, which lends itself to the Church replacing Israel, inspired Augustine (354-430 AD) - perhaps the most influential theologian in the history of the Western Church. (Augustine was a Replacement Theologian.) Add Augustine's theological backing to the powerful emerging Church-State dynamic, and the unfortunate recipe for anti-Semitic disaster was well-nigh established. (After all, the literal pre-millennial view of the Scriptures was and is inherently antithetical to a Church-State system seeking to subdue the world.)[vii] The stage was set for the Crusades and the Inquisitions. Lest the reader think the case is being overstated, listen to the venomous words of Augustine's contemporary John Crysostom (349-407 AD), widely considered to be the most prominent Preacher of his day:

"The Jews are the most worthless of all men. They are lecherous, greedy and rapacious. They are perfidious murders of Christ. They worshiped the devil; their religion is a sickness. The Jews are the odious assassins of Christ, and for killing God there is no expiation possible, no indulgence or pardon. Christians may never cease vengeance, and the Jews must live in servitude forever. God always hated the Jews. It is incumbent upon all Christians to hate the Jews."[viii]

I believe that Dr. Ice is justified in making the following statement:

"Replacement theology has been the fuel that has energized Medieval anti-Semitism, Eastern European pogroms, the Holocaust and contemporary disdain for the modern state of Israel."[ix]

Dr. Chuck Missler calls it the 'road from Augustine to Auschwitz.'[x] Dave Hunt explains:

"Hitler justified his 'final solution' by pointing out that the [Catholic] Church had oppressed and killed Jews for centuries. How amazing that those who claimed to be the followers of Christ and successors of Peter could 'persecute the race from which Peter - and Jesus - sprang'! Yet they did it in the name of Christ and felt justified thereby."[xi]


An Issue for Today

Whether they know it or not, many Evangelical and Protestant Churches in the West have inherited Augustine's view of the Church and Israel. Dr. Ice explains:

"The church often allegorizes many portions of the Bible, both Old and New Testaments, in order to teach that since the time of Christ Israel has no claim to the land of Israel."[xii]

Dr. J. Randall Price writes in an article entitled Is the Modern State of Israel Prophetically Significant?:

"There are also Catholic, Protestant, and Reformed churches in the West who, while accepting the political reality of the modern Jewish state, deny any theological importance to Jewish regathering."[xiii]

This would help to explain why it took the Vatican 46 years to recognize the existence of the modern State of Israel.[xiv] This would help to explain why the Presbyterian Church U.S.A. called for divestment from its holdings connected to Israeli interests.[xv] This would help to explain "widespread unbalanced media reporting" of events in Israel and the Middle East.[xvi] This would help to explain why, indirectly, Replacement Theology is official United States foreign policy.[xvii] This would help to explain why, as Dr. J. Randall Price reports, many Eastern Churches "view the existence of the State of Israel, and especially Judaism, as an intrusion into a religious situation dominated by their ecclesiastical bodies since the early centuries of Christianity. From their shared theological perspective of replacement theology, they are the rightful successors of the ancient church and therefore of the old Israel and consider themselves to be a part of the Land in their own right."[xviii]

Dr. Price continues:

"For this reason the modern rebirth of the Jewish state is seen as of no special importance. This theological attitude is more or less held by churches in the West, who, with churches in the East must enter into conflict with the Jewish state over political and property issues or in protests of the Israeli government's treatment of the resident Christian community, the larger percentage of which is Palestinian Arab."[xix]

In an article entitled Christian Zionism Dr. Thomas Ice states, "If the Bible is to be taken literally and still applies to Israel...it should not be surprising to anyone that such a view leads one, such as myself, to Christian Zionism. Zionism is simply the desire for the Jewish people to occupy the land of Israel. Christian Zionists are Christians who advocate this belief."[xx] Dr. Ice notes that while Christian Zionism is on the rise, so too is its opposition. It appears that the issue of Israel is increasingly a watershed issue for the Church.


God's Character is on the Line

In his new book Epicenter, Joel Rosenberg chooses his side:

"Second, as an evangelical Christian, I believed what the Bible said about God giving the land of Israel to the Jewish people as an everlasting covenant, one that could not be broken, no matter what mistakes we Jews made throughout the centuries."[xxi]

Rosenberg's remarks bring us to the heart of the matter. The issue of Replacement Theology is not primarily about Ecclesiology, Eschatology, or getting back to our Jewish roots - as important as these issues are for born-again Christians. The real issue is the integrity of God's promises to Abraham and the Jewish people. Chapters 12, 15, and 17 of Genesis state plainly enough that the Abrahamic Covenants are unconditional and everlasting. And the Hebrew word used repeatedly for everlasting means, yes, everlasting! By all accounts the Mosaic Covenants were conditional or performance-based, yet Paul addresses this issue head-on in Galatians 3:17-18:

And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect. For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

Ezekiel 36 in its proper context makes it very clear that ultimately God fulfills His promises to Abraham, not because of Israel's obedience, but for the sake of His Holy name. Verses 22 states emphatically:

Therefore say unto the house of Israel, thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.

When applied to a literal and future event, there can be no doubt as to what Ezekiel 36 is referring. Isaiah 11:11 makes it clear that Israel would be scattered among the nations twice, and Hosea 6:2 hints that the second Diaspora would last about 2000 years. Taken at face value, Daniel 9:24-27 explains this mysterious 2000 year interval 'filled in' by the Church. Romans 11 explicitly states that Israel's blindness (initiated in Luke 19) is temporary. The original Jewish branches will be grafted back in!

Galatians 6:16 is the only verse that can possibly be used to argue that the Church replaces Israel - but even that is a contrivance once the grammar is carefully analyzed, especially in light of Galatians 6:15. I know it sounds harsh, but I agree with Grant Jeffrey:

"Some Christians still reject the clear teaching of the Old and New Testaments about the role of Israel in God's plan for the redemption of the planet. The Bible declares that Israel's covenant with God is unbroken. Israel is still the key to the unfolding prophetic events leading to the second coming of Christ. Since these prophetic Scriptures are unshakable, the only way to escape their clear message is to arbitrarily change the meaning of the Bible's words (emphasis added)."[xxii]

Dr. Ice agrees, stating "Since Israel is a subject found on just about every page of the Old and New Testaments, to get that subject wrong can only lead to a mega-distortion of Scripture. This has indeed been the case throughout the history of the church."[xxiii]

In an article entitled The Kingdom of God, Dave Hunt asserts, "Thus to deny Israel that special part in prophecy, and to claim that the church is now Israel, removes foundational points of reference and opens the door to distortion and confusion both as to Israel and the church."[xxiv] In another article entitled Jews, Gentiles & the Church, Hunt states, "The preservation of the Israelis as an identifiable people, in spite of the proverbial 'wandering Jews'' 2,500-year Diaspora from the promised land, and the establishment of Israel in 1948, constitute irrefutable proof for the existence of the 'God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob' and the validity of His Holy Word. Therefore, to insist that Israel no longer has any claim to her ancient homeland, and that her return thereto is a mere coincidence, denies one of the most persuasive arguments for belief in God and the gospel."[xxv]

In his classic book The Late Great Planet Earth, Hal Lindsey says succinctly, "Some theologians of the liberal school still insist that prophecy has no literal meaning for today and that it cannot be taken seriously. It is difficult to understand this view if one carefully weighs the case of Israel's rebirth as a nation."[xxvi]

Dr. Dwight Pentecost, long-time professor at Dallas Theological Seminary, summarizes:

"Thus we conclude that the church is a part of a kingdom of the God of heaven, falling in the inter-advent period. It was an unrevealed mystery in the Old Testament, but it was necessitated by Israel's rejection of the Messiah, which caused the postponement of the promised and covenant form of the kingdom, which will be inaugurated by the appearance of the King of kings and Lord of lords at His second advent (emphasis added)."[xxvii]

Recently while reading E.W. Bullinger's The Witness of the Stars (originally published in 1893), I encountered the following:

"If we ask how long [Jerusalem] shall continue to be 'trodden down' ? how long it will be before Israel shall again possess their city and their land ? - the answer brings us at once to the heart of our subject."[xxviii]

And again, remember this was first published in 1893:

"Though Jews are returning thither in ever-increasing numbers, they are only strangers there. They have as yet no independent position, nor can they make any treaties. But when the 'times' shall end, it means that they will have a position of sufficient independence to be able to make a treaty or league with the coming Prince (Dan. ix. 27); and then the course of events will bring on another treading down of 1260 literal 'days,' which will thus have had a fore-shadowing fulfillment in years! This is written in Rev. xi. 2. And to save us from any misunderstanding, the time is given, not in days, but in ?months' (emphasis added)."[xxix]

Not that I should have been surprised, but I was delighted by the idea that Bullinger was anticipating Isaiah 66:8 (the rebirth of Israel) 55 years before the fact!

Replacement Theology and Islam

Our discussion of Replacement Theology concludes with a brief examination of Islam. Rabbi Jeff Adler of Shaarey Yeshua Messianic Congregation (Indianapolis, IN) told me flat out, "Replacement theology is the heart of Islam."[xxx] After all, Muslims teach that it was Ishmael, not Isaac, who was Abraham's 'Son of Promise' offered on Mount Moriah. Thus God's blessings allegedly came down through the Arabian offspring of Ishmael. Hal Lindsey notes in The Everlasting Hatred, the Roots of Jihad that "in their zeal to replace Israel, the Muslim's most serious charge against the Jews is that they corrupted the revelation God gave them."[xxxi] Islam teaches that the Koran abrogates the Bible of the Jews and Christians, and that it is the full and final revelation of Allah - who is supposedly the same god as the God of the Bible. In making these claims, Islam clearly attempts to usurp God's promises and covenants with the Jews.

At its core, Islam is inherently anti-Semitic. Let the Koran speak for itself:

Sura 2:89-90 And when there came to them a Book from Allah verifying that which they [Jews] have, and aforetime they used to pray for victory against those who disbelieve, but when there came to them (Prophet) that which they did not recognize, they [Jews] disbelieved in him; so Allah's curse is on the unbelievers.
Evil is that for which they have sold their souls-- that they should deny what Allah has revealed, out of envy that Allah should send down of His grace on whomsoever of His servants He pleases; so they have made themselves deserving of wrath upon wrath, and there is a disgraceful punishment for the unbelievers.

Sura 2:96 And you will most certainly find them [Jews] the greediest of men for life (greedier) than even those who are polytheists.

Sura 3:112 Abasement is made to cleave to them [Jews] wherever they are found, except under a covenant with Allah and a covenant with men, and they have become deserving of wrath from Allah, and humiliation is made to cleave to them; this is because they disbelieved in the communications of Allah and slew the prophets unjustly; this is because they disobeyed and exceeded the limits.

Sura 4:46 .but Allah has cursed them [Jews] on account of their unbelief, so they do not believe but a little.

Sura 5:51 O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.


Sura 5:60 Say: Shall I inform you of (him who is) worse than this in retribution from Allah? [Worse is he (Jews)] whom Allah has cursed and brought His wrath upon, and of whom He made apes and swine, and he who served the Shaitan; these [Jews] are worse in place and more erring from the straight path.

What's more, the Islamic Hadith (traditions attributed to the prophet Mohammed) state unequivocally:

"The Resurrection of the dead will not come until the Muslims will war with the Jews and the Muslims will kill them.the trees and rocks will say, 'O Muslim, here is a Jew behind me, come and kill him.'"[xxxii]

Unbelievably, the destruction of the Jews is a pre-requisite for the Islamic version of the Last Days. No wonder the PA charter openly calls for the destruction of Israel. No wonder Saddam Hussein launched scuds at Israel in 1991. No wonder Iranian president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is openly denying the holocaust and calling for Israel to be wiped off the face of the map. No wonder Ahmadinejad believes he is on a mission from Allah to cause a global conflagration that will hasten the emergence of the 12th Imam - the Islamic leader who will lead the Last Days charge against the Jews. No wonder Islamic radicals dream of the day when they will push the Jews into the Mediterranean Sea.

One of the most powerful films I have viewed is Honest Reporting's 'Relentless.' This film documents the indoctrination of hate (against Jews) perpetrated on young children at PA funded schools. How my blood boiled when I saw a five year old holding a machine gun and telling the camera that his highest goal in life was to kill Jews. This evil is straight out of the pit of hell.

I have heard it said that Satan believes if he can annihilate every Jew on the face of the earth, he can show God to be a liar and therefore derail the Second Coming. Matthew 23:39 seems to support this idea. Jesus Himself says that He will not return until the Jews say, Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord. If there are no Jews to cry out, then Jesus cannot return. (At least that's the idea.)

According to the estimates, Hitler succeeded in killing at least 6 million European Jews, roughly one-third of the Jewish population world wide. Zechariah 13:8 indicates that the coming antichrist will succeed in killing two-thirds of the Jews living in his day:

And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.

Without getting into the specifics of about the coming world leader, clearly anti-Semitism will be one of his secret doctrines, though he may arrive on the scene as a pseudo-Zionist. Prophetically, he must allow the re-building of the Jewish Temple and in so doing in may appear as though he has achieved the long-awaited peace in the Middle East. However, the coming world leader will eventually begin to exude a spirit of anti-Semitism that will dwarf past Crusades, Inquisitions, Pogroms, Holocausts, and Jihads. Whether he will be connected with Islam, apostate Christianity or both remains to be seen. But one thing is clear, the coming antichrist will hate the Jews and he will likely persuade the world to do the same by espousing some degenerate form of Replacement Theology.

Conclusion

Satan will employ every resource at his disposal towards the destruction of the Jewish people, but ultimately his efforts will not succeed. The Lord has already set aside for Himself a remnant (Zechariah 12:10, 13:9; Matthew 23:39; Romans 11:26; Revelation 7:4, etc.), and that which He has spoken shall not return unto Him void. As Christians, we are in the midst of concentrated Spiritual warfare. We are called to stand against the wiles of the Devil and not to be ignorant of his devices. Let us endeavor to expose the theologically justified anti-Semitism lurking secretly and insidiously behind the deception that is Replacement Theology. Psalm 102:16:

When the LORD shall build up Zion, he shall appear in his glory

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End Notes

[i] Dr. Thomas Ice, What is Replacement Theology? (Pre-Trib Research Center: 2003).
http://www.pre-trib.org/article-view.php?id=249
[ii] Bill Koenig: http://www.watch.org/showprint.php3?idx=64...rtn=/index.html
[iii] Ibid.
[iv] Grant Jeffrey, Prince of Darkness (Toronto, Ontario: Frontier Research Publications, 1994), 127.
[v] Ice, What is Replacement Theology?, http://www.pre-trib.org/article-view.php?id=249.
[vi] Chuck Missler, How to Study the Bible (Koinonia House, 2006), MP3.
[vii] Ibid.
[viii] John Hagee, Jerusalem Countdown (Lake Mary, Florida: FrontLine, 2006), 73.
[ix] Ice, What is Replacement Theology?, http://www.pre-trib.org/article-view.php?id=249.
[x] Chuck Missler, The Prodigal Heirs (Koinonia House, 1995), 66/40 Radio Broadcast.
[xi] Dave Hunt, A Woman Rides the Beast (Eugene, Oregon: Harvest House Publishers, 1994), 265.
[xii] Ice, What is Replacement Theology?, http://www.pre-trib.org/article-view.php?id=249.
[xiii] Dr. J. Randall Price, Is the Modern State of Israel Prophetically Significant?
http://www.worldofthebible.com/Bible%20Stu...Significant.pdf
[xiv] Hunt, Woman Rides Beast, 292.
[xv] http://www.pcusa.org/ga216/business/overtures/ovt0432.htm
[xvi] Jeffrey, Prince of Darkness, 127.
[xvii] http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2003/20062.htm
[xviii] Dr. Price, Israel Prophetically Significant?
http://www.worldofthebible.com/Bible%20Stu...Significant.pdf

[xix] Ibid.
[xx] Dr. Thomas Ice, Christian Zionism (Pre-Trib Research Center: 2003).
http://www.pre-trib.org/article-view.php?id=18
[xxi] Joel C. Rosenberg, Epicenter (Carol Stream, Illinois: Tyndale House Publishers, Inc., 2006), 26.
[xxii] Jeffrey, Prince of Darkness, 127.
[xxiii] Dr. Ice, What is Replacement Theology?: http://www.pre-trib.org/article-view.php?id=249
[xxiv] Dave Hunt, The Kingdom of God: http://www.thebereancall.org/Newsletter/html/1988/sep88.php
[xxv] Dave Hunt, Jews, Gentiles & the Church: http://www.thebereancall.org/Newsletter/html/1989/sep89.php
[xxvi] Hal Lindsey, The Late Great Planet Earth (Grand Rapids, Michigan: Zondervan, 1970), 48-49.
[xxvii] Dr. Dwight Pentecost, The Relationship of the Church to the Kingdom of God (Pre-Trib Research Center: 2003).
http://www.pre-trib.org/article-view.php?id=98
[xxviii] E.W. Bullinger, The Witness of the Stars (Grand Rapids, Michigan: Kregal Publications, 1893), 184.
[xxix] Ibid., 191.
[xxx] Rabbi Jeff Adler, response to personal email.
[xxxi] Hal Lindsey, The Everlasting Hatred, the Roots of Jihad (Murrieta, California: Oracle House Publishing, 2002), 45.
[xxxii] Ibid., 125.


--------------------------
Selected Bibliography

Rabbi Jeff Adler, Shaarey Yeshua Messianic Congregation (Indianapolis, IN).

E.W. Bullinger, The Witness of the Stars (Grand Rapids, Michigan: Kregal Publications, 1893).

John Hagee, Jerusalem Countdown (Lake Mary, Florida: FrontLine, 2006).

Dave Hunt, A Woman Rides the Beast (Eugene, Oregon: Harvest House Publishers, 1994).

Dave Hunt, Jews, Gentiles & the Church:
http://www.thebereancall.org/Newsletter/html/1989/sep89.php

Dave Hunt, The Kingdom of God:
http://www.thebereancall.org/Newsletter/html/1988/sep88.php

Dr. Thomas Ice, Christian Zionism (Pre-Trib Research Center: 2003).
http://www.pre-trib.org/article-view.php?id=18

Dr. Thomas Ice, What is Replacement Theology? (Pre-Trib Research Center: 2003).
http://www.pre-trib.org/article-view.php?id=249

Grant Jeffrey, Prince of Darkness (Toronto, Ontario: Frontier Research Publications, 1994).

Bill Koenig: http://www.watch.org/showprint.php3?idx=64...rtn=/index.html

Hal Lindsey, The Everlasting Hatred, the Roots of Jihad (Murrieta, California: Oracle House Publishing, 2002).

Hal Lindsey, The Late Great Planet Earth (Grand Rapids, Michigan: Zondervan, 1970).

Chuck Missler, How to Study the Bible (Koinonia House, 2006), MP3.

Chuck Missler, The Prodigal Heirs (Koinonia House, 1995), 66/40 Radio Broadcast.

Dr. Dwight Pentecost, The Relationship of the Church to the Kingdom of God (Pre-Trib Research Center: 2003).
http://www.pre-trib.org/article-view.php?id=98

Dr. J. Randall Price, Is the Modern State of Israel Prophetically Significant?
http://www.worldofthebible.com/Bible%20Stu...Significant.pdf

Joel C. Rosenberg, Epicenter (Carol Stream, Illinois: Tyndale House Publishers, Inc., 2006).

Relentless: The Struggle for Peace in the Middle East: Updated Edition (An HonestReporting.com Film, 2003).

http://www.pcusa.org/ga216/business/overtures/ovt0432.htm

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2003/20062.htm

Amen...It's a no brainer...I've never had a problem understanding this issue because there isn't one. The only issue that exists is the one that is contrived in the minds of men...with the help of the enemy to do one thing...thwart the purposes of God...

I can understand Satan's roll as Satan but l've never been able to understand how men agree with it?
I'm glad l didn't see my church on that list. But l'm constantly watching for deviations that creep in slow..

I won't comprimise in this area.

First of all "Replacement theology" is a disparaging term of a long held doctrine of the church. The doctrine is misrepresented in this article. In fact the church is God's holy nation of Israel. This is all explained in Romans 9,10 and 11. God cut off the natural branches (bloodline Jews) and grafted onto the vine the wild branches (gentiles). Therefore Israel exists as a vine always from Jacob through to this present day. Does this mean that God has rejected his people the Jews and those bloodline Israelites still scattered amongst the nations for ever? Not all replacement theologians believe so by virtue of the fact that Paul explains in prophecy that the bloodline Jews will be once more grafted onto the vine so that all Israel will be saved.

So God says we are a holy nation, a peculiar people born to be kings and priests. And what is the name of that nation?
1 Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

If it is not Israel then please tell me somebody what the name of the nation is. Was ever there a nation that had no name?

Incidentally this is the very same thing which was said to a nation long ago Exodus 19:5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: 6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation.

It is irresponsible to say that the church is not Israel when the New Covenant was made with Israel. What you say? How can the church be anything else but Israel if the New Covenant was made with Israel? If you want to be participants in the New Covenant then you must become Israelites circumcised in the heart and baptised into that nation.
Heb 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, [2] which was established upon better promises. 7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. 8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: 9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put [3] my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: 13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Also the Bible specifically states that Christians are Jews. Surely not you say?
Matthew 2:2 Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.
Matthew 27:37 And set up over his head his accusation written, THIS IS JESUS THE KING OF THE JEWS.
Are we a part of Gods kingdom? Who is our King? If Jesus is our king and he is the King of the Jews then we must be Jews.

Romans 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
Therefore by being circumcised in the heart and the spirit we become Jews.

Gal 2:15 We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, 16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
So what do we become by nature if we seek justification by faith? Jews. True Jews by nature and not by the deeds of the law.

The Christian church in Greek Smyrna were claiming to be Jews ie. true members of the church.
Rev 2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

It is irresponsible to argue that because there are anti-semitists who distort the doctrine to commit evil deeds that therefore we must abandon the original pure doctrine. This is like abandoning Christianity because there are evil people who use the name of Christ. This is a cowards approach to tackling an argument. Not being prepared to argue the matter on its merits the coward uses rhetoric to demonise the opposing view. This is what has been done in this post by Scott A. Keisler.

The article incorrectly makes this ridiculous statement Galatians 6:16 is the only verse that can possibly be used to argue that the Church replaces Israel - but even that is a contrivance once the grammar is carefully analyzed, especially in light of Galatians 6:15.
In fact this passage in Galations clearly indicates that the church is the Israel of God but the author has argued around this saying it is a grammatical contrivance. What a disgraceful way to handle the scripture. Not only that he has denied all these other scriptures which I have mentioned (and there are many more) even exist.

Scott,
Awesome! 100% agree with your conclusion. Excellent article and right on the money! You answered some questions I had from a few months ago, such as why the Catholic Church could deal so openly with the PA and be so ready to condemn Israel for its actions. Those things baffled me, except that I expected as much from an apostate church. Thanks for clearing up replacement theology as well. I have heard it preached before, and I know a woman who is a minister in the Church of Christ who is well versed in the 'we are Israel' tagline. She has told me often times that when the Bible speaks of Israel, it speaks not of the land that Israel occupies or the Jewish folk living there or the fact that Israel is a nation, but instead the Bible means the 'spiritual Israel'. I asked her to explain Isaiah 66:6-8:

Isa 66:6 A voice of noise from the city, a voice from the temple, a voice of the LORD that rendereth recompence to his enemies.
Isa 66:7 Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child.
Isa 66:8 Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.

If that did not directly point to and describe Israel, then what is the prophecy pointing to? We left it there, but I know that Isaiah was telling us about the re-birth of Israel. In Isaiah 66:7-8, the prophet foreshadowed the re-birth of Israel in 1948. Isaiah describes a woman giving birth before going into labor, and he speaks of a country being born in one day. This accurately describes what happened on May 14, 1948 - when the Jews declared independence for Israel as a united and sovereign nation for the first time in 2900 years.

During that same day, the United States issued a statement recognizing Israel's sovereignty. And, only hours beforehand, a United Nations mandate expired, ending British control of the land. During a 24-hour span of time, foreign control of the land of Israel had formally ceased, and Israel had declared its independence, and its independence was acknowledged by other nations. Modern Israel was literally was born in a single day.

Isaiah said the birth would take place before there would be labor pains. And that too is precisely what happened. A movement called Zionism began in the 1800s to encourage Jews worldwide to move to Israel, which at that time was called Palestine. Within hours of the declaration of independence in 1948, Israel was attacked by the surrounding countries of Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq and Saudi Arabia.

When reading Isaiah 66:7-8, keep in mind that Israel's status as a sovereign nation was established and reaffirmed during the course of a single day, and that it was born of a movement called Zionism, and that its declaration of independence was not the result of a war but rather the cause of one.


Grace and peace of JESUS CHRIST be with you.

Did the Christian Church replace the nation and people, Israel? as in Replacement Theology?
If yes, then,...........

romans 9;3-4 Amplified Bible
Israel (which is the Christian Church) is accursed, cut off, and banished from Christ

verse 6
not everybody who is a descendant from Jacob/Israel (the Church) belongs to the [true] Israel

verse 27
only a small part of Israel (the christian church) ---the remnant--- will be saved

verse 31
Israel (the Church) did not succeed in fulfilling the Mosaic Law

verse 32
Israel (the Church) pursued righteousness NOT THROUGH FAITH, they pursued it through the merit of their works

verse 32
Israel (the Church) "stumbled over the Stumbling Stone (Jesus)."

Chapter 10 verse 1
Paul wishes with ALL HIS HEART and prays that Israel (the Christian Church) may be saved

Chapter 11 verse 1
Has God totally rejected and disowned His people Israel (the Church)? Of course not!

verse 5
a small miniority (a remnant) of Israel (the Christian church) is Chosen by God's Grace


My thoughts:
As you can see from the above foolishness, the Christian Church HAS NOT replaced the nation and people Israel.
Replacement Theology is wrong.

Ga 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
Ga 6:16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

There are two views on Gal 16:6, and there are Greek grammatical arguments for both sides:

1. Since Christ’s death, the Israel of God is the church, regardless of whether a person is Jew or Gentile.
2. This refers to Jewish people who do not yet believe in Christ but will.

FYI.

Yes I can see from your post that what you have written is foolish. In fact you have proven your own argument to be false by your statement.

"verse 5
a small miniority (a remnant) of Israel (the Christian church) is Chosen by God's Grace"

Which is exactly what I have been teaching. That the bloodline Israel was cut off from its inheritance for all the reasons you listed from Chapter 9, all except a remnant which was saved by God's grace which you said yourself was the Church.

So if I had a bag of apples and most of them were rotten and I went through the bag and saved out some few apples that had not gone bad. I would have a remnant of apples wouldn't I? I would not have a remnant of bananas, or a remnant of oranges. Now that would be foolish. No I would have a remnant of the same thing of which the greater body had been.

So if there is a remnant of Israel, how could that remnant be anything other than Israel? If it were not Israel then how could it be said that it was a remnant of Israel?

Before Noah, only a small minority of people got saved from their sins.
Many walk the broad road to destruction.......Few walk the straight and narrow road to everlasting life.
Before Noah, there was no such thing as a Jew.

***

between Jacob/Israel and Christ, only a Few (the remnant) of the bloodline Israel ever got saved from their sins. The rest died in their sins for their un-belief.
And only a Few of the gentiles ever got saved during this time. Ruth was one of the saved gentiles, by conversion to Israel's God.

***

At the time of Christ, Many Jews and Gentiles rejected Christ and salvation.
Only a Few Jews and gentiles got saved.

***

Since Christ, Only a Few Jews and a Few Gentiles got saved.
In EVERY generation, Only a Few get saved.
The Many reject God, and die in their sins.

Replacement Theology is wrong.
At the end-of-trib, all Jewish survivors of the Trib will see Jesus PHYSICALLY Return, and then, they will ALL believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, and mourn, and thus, ALL ISRAEL SHALL BE SAVED (Romans 11;26).

before the end-of-trib (today), when a non-messianic jew dies, he dies in his sins.


***********

in some places in the NT, "Israel" speaks of bloodline from Jacob.
in other places , "Israel" speaks of all believers (jews and gentiles)
as in Romans 9;6
"it is not everybody who is a descendant of Jacob {Israel) who belongs to the [true] Israel"

Galatians 6;16........this "Israel" is not bloodline from Jacob........it is believers

ephesians 2;12
"Israel" as a nation........bloodline from Jacob

Rev 21;12......."israel" is the the nation of bloodline from Jacob (i think)

Romans 9, 10 and 11 Paul is talking about Israel, the elect of Israel that believe, the rest that do not believe, and how through their unbelief the LORD GOD used their blindness to bring salvation to the rest of the world. He says in his letter that GOD has not cast away Israel even though JESUS CHRIST the MESSIAH has come. Paul wants Israel - the nation of Israel, the Jews, his brethern - to be saved:



Israel has not been 'replaced', but rather, the Gentiles have been grafted into the same olive tree that some (verses 17-20) of the Jews through unbelief in CHRIST have been taken out of. The olive tree hac been added to by the inclusion of the believing Gentiles. Some of the natural branches - the Jews - were taken out because of unbelief in CHRIST, not because the Gentile is better than the Jew:



Paul also wrote in Chapter 11 that through the unbelief and the blindness (unbelief) of his Jewish brethern, the Gentiles have been given the opportunity to be saved, and that through the blessings of the Gentiles and mercies they receive the Jews (the elect of Israel) might be provoked to believe and be saved:

What are you saying in this sentence excubitor?



Is the vine in this context a correct analogy? Your confusing me. Jesus is the vine..?

More than all Israel will be saved...Gentiles as well. Correct?

So in Hebrews he's talking about how after the first covenant failed God proclaimed a new covenant to come...which was Christ death and resurrection.... for those who except and believe.

means what?

Its been a long time since I have seen such "Scripture murder" . This thread takes the cake.

A good point to start is the Word.
Todd says:

Correct, now you are looking at "ALL Israel" the gentiles and Israel church together.One cannot replace the other. There is only one church..the called out ones. This group is also mentioned in

Zep 1:7 Hold thy peace at the presence of the Lord GOD:for the day of the LORD is at hand: for the LORD hath prepared a sacrifice, he hath bid his guests.

qârâ'
kaw-raw'
A primitive root (rather identical with H7122 through the idea of accosting a person met); to call out to
and
Church:ek-klay-see'-ah
From a compound of G1537 and a derivative of G2564; a calling out,

So if you are not part of the "called out ones" you are not part of the tree. Some Jews will never believe, just like some gentiles will never believe. There is not another kind of church in the Bible. Just the church of Jesus, the New Jerusalem, the City on a hill, the Candlestick, the Olive Tree, His people, Israel., the body of Christ,...the ones who belong to God, through faith ..the children of Abraham. All who have died to self and have Christ in them.
The people of the Word, in whom lives the Living Word of God....Emmanuel.

I also truly and utterly believe that God is about to do a MAJOR work in Israel (the nation in the Middle East)
Many will come to Him (those whom He have chosen...He Himself calls them a remnant....a few...just a little..not all...)ALL Israel INCLUDES you. A remnant , plus all Israel (in the sense that all of the Jews will be saved) does not work out....a few..then all..., but if ALL includes ALL believers, then yes it makes sense.

Its simple....those who are not FOR Him, are AGAINST Him
C

The bloodline has not been completely 'broken off'. Some of the natural branches have been removed due to unbelief (Rom. 11:20) while others (the remnant - CHRIST believing Jews - Rom 11:4,5) remain on the olive tree. The elect - saved Jews - are still attached. The believing gentiles have been grafted into the olive tree as well.

Paul also says:



If casting away the unbelieving Jews allows reconciliation of the world, then when those cut off branches are grafted back in it will be like bringing the dead to life. In other words, even those that have been cut off will someday recognize CHRIST as their MESSIAH.

One cool thing about the Olive tree I ran across:

The Wycliffe Bible Dictionary p.1366-1367 has an extensive section on olive cultivation. At the conclusion it says, "Olive trees are grown from slips that are grafted on an old trunk or a wild tree when the shoots or suckers are about three feet long. Also new shots may spring from the roots or stump of an old parent tree (Psalm 128:3; Isaiah 11:1). There is no fruit for three to four years, and no plentiful harvest for 17 to 18 years. All this time the tree requires careful attention, the soil plowed and fertilized each spring and faithfully watered. ...properly cared for, a full-sized tree will produce a half ton of oil a year and continue until it reaches incredible age." The New International Bible Dictionary p.802 and the Encyclopedia Britannica 1972 vol.16 p.936 have photographs of olive trees that are 1,000 years old. If I were a tree, I would like to be an olive tree, sturdy, bug-resistant, and live to a thousand years old!

Sorta brings a few verses to mind, doesn't it?

I am sorry, I cannot talk on this thread anymore
C

GREAT WORK, Scott! This is beautiful!

Pray

Joel's call to Repentence

Joel 2: 17 Let the priests, the ministers of the LORD, weep between the porch and the altar, and let them say, Spare thy people, O LORD, and give not thine heritage to reproach, that the heathen should rule over them, wherefore should they say among the people, Where is their God?

18. Then will the LORD be jealous for his land, and pity his people.

19. Yea, the LORD WILL ANSWER and Say UNTO HIS people, behold, i will send you CORN, AND WINE, AND OIL, AND YE SHALL be satisfied therewith; and I will no more make you a reproach among the heathen;

20. But I will remove far off from you the NORTHERN ARMY, and WILL DRIVE HIM INTO A LAND BARREN AND DESOLATE, with his face toward the east sea, and his hinder part toward the utmost sea, and his stink shall come up, and his ill savour shall come up, becaue he hath done great things.

21. FEAR NOT, O LAND; be glad and rejoice; for the LORD WILL DO GREAT THINGS.

22. Be not afraid, ye beasts of the field; for the pastures of the wilderness do spring for the tree beareth her fruit, the fig tree and the vine do yield their strength.

23. Be glad then, ye children of Zion, and rejoice in the LORD your GOD; for he hath given you the former rain moderately, and he will cause to come down for you the rain, the former rain, and the latter rain in the first month.

24. And the floors shall be full of wheat, and the fats shall overflow with wine and oil.

25. And I will restore to you the years that the locust hath eaten, the cankerworm, and the caterpiller, and the palmerworm, my great army which I sent among you.

26. And ye shall eat in plenty, and be satisfied, and praise the name of the LORD your GOD, that hath dealt wondrously with you; and my people shall never be ashamed.

27. And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the LORD your GOD, and NONE else; and my people shall never be ashamed.

28. And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon ALL FLESH; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions;

29. And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spriit.

Praise the LORD our GOD, HONOR the FATHER and the SON to whom all glory is DECLARED from the Heavens and Earth!!!

Right. I hold position #2. Several times in Galatians Paul uses circumcision and uncircumcision as idioms speaking of Jews and Gentiles. Look at Galatians 2:12; 5:6, 11; and of course here in 6:15. With this structure in mind, look at verse 16:

And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

(note: the NIV ends verse 16 with the phrase even to the Israel of God, which many conservative scholars believe is a mis-rendering of the Greek.)

So in verse 16 we have the two groups Paul has been referring to, those who walk according to this rule (uncircumcised, gentiles) and the Israel of God (circumcised, Jews).

At first this passage appears to be an argument for Replacement Theology, but it is actually and argument against it.

Romans 11;15
KJV
"For if the CASTING AWAY of them be the reconciling of the world............."

the (un-believing portion of) bloodline israel is CAST AWAY.

verse 1
Hath God CAST AWAY His people?

verse 2
God hath not CAST AWAY His people.............

1 Corinthians 9;27
Paul was afraid that , after preaching to others (about receiving the prize), "I myself might become a CASTAWAY."

My point is:

Any Christian (or believing Jew as Paul was) can become a CASTAWAY.
When we stop believing, we lose our salvation (the prize).
OSAS and Calvinisim is wrong.

All of you of the flesh listen closely. It is not about the Jews It is About Jesus Christ the Lord.
All men who repent and believe have been grafted back into God through the Lord Jesus Christ. The Lord chose the Jews to come through.
Replacement Theology is a term made up by the deluded of the earth to further contaminate the Gospel of Christ. All of the men of faith came by the way of Christ looking forward to His coming through prophecy. These were the only Israel who found favor in the sight of God. All of the Israel of the flesh has always been destroyed by God. Christ came to show everyone who would repent and believe, the way to their Father by faith. The covenant of the Law is obsolete as are all who follow it. The new covenant of Faith which Christ Jesus brought indeed replaced the old covenant of the Law.

1 John 4
3 and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.

Galatians 3
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.





The old covenant of the flesh through the law is dismantled and is no more.

Hebrews 8
13 In that He says, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

________________________________________________________

The seed that the promise was made to was Christ and his elect. Paul teaches it. But if you reject His teaching who am I to try and straighten you out. But for those who view this thread who can read hear and understand Here is the Scripture.

Galatians 3
16 Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, "And to seeds," as of many, but as of one, "And to your Seed," who is Christ.

______________________________________________________

The Covenant of faith delivered by Christ is the only way to God. There is no other way for anyone. Everyone who rejects Christ and does not repent befor Christ rises and closes the door, will be condemed no mater who they are. There has never been any special treatment for those who kill Gods messengers but instead destruction.

Romans 4
For the promise that he would be the heir of the world was not to Abraham or to his seed through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

I used the Amplified Bible also , but I also used the KJ study Bible for cross refrence because the Amplified Bible has left out some things in thier translation.

Romans 9:3-4
3:For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
4:Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

Verse 6
Not as throughthe word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

Verse 27
Isaiah also cried concerning Israel, THOUGH THE NUMBER OF THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL BE AS THE SAND OF THE SEA, A REMNANT SHALL BE SAVED

Verse 31
But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of the righteousness.

Verse 32
Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumbling stone;

Add in Verse 33
As it is written,BEHOLD, I LAY IN ZION A STUMBLING STONE AND ROCK OF OFFENSE: AND WHOSOEVER BELIEVETH ON HIM SHALL NOT BE ASHAMED.

Chapter 10:1
BRETHEN, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.

Chapter 11:1
I SAY then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the tribe of Benjamin.

Added
Verse 4
But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved for myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the real image of BAAL.

Verse 5
Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

But my understanding the being Israel is:

1: When we are born again into Christ we are Israel, we become Jewish.
2: Church is a term giving to a building where people hold worship sevices for the Lord.
3: The church is Israel if only one person in the church is born again .
4: Not all people who confess to be a Christian will meet with the Lord on that cloud in the sky.
5: Don't worry about whether the Church is Israel, worry about if we are Israel.
6: A church can be "Where two or more are gathered in worship of the Lord".
7: A church can be at home in the present of the Lord with your family or friends in total worship.
8: So a church is a person also, You are the temple of the Lord.
9: Paul himself was the rock (church), not a building.

I pray that the Chruch will be saved..as you know that alot of churches are not of God. They are different religions out there and some are so evil that we know unless a spiritual awaken by our LORD they will spend enternality in HELL.

So in conclusion: I agree with you about the replacement theory:

Well you understand that the vine is Christ and that the branches on the vine are the church. So how do you say that this part of the plant is the vine and this part is the branches. You cannot, for the branches are the vine and the vine includes the branches. Therefore the church is the body of Christ. Is Abraham Isaac and Jacob, Elijah, King David, Jeremiah and Isaiah part of the vine? They must be because how else can we say that the church is founded on the prophets
Eph 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; 21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

So Jesus is the chief cornerstone, the rock. We are all of the same temple as he. Now when was this foundation stone laid? Was it laid at the crucifixion? Not at all. It was laid as Abraham believed and was called out of his land into a land of promise and given a promise that out of his seed would all the world be blessed. This promise being fulfilled in Christ and the church. It was laid as Jacob laid his head upon the rock and who wreslted with God and was renamed as Israel. It was laid in the wilderness as the people of God drank from the rock.
1 Cor 10:1Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat; 4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. 5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.

How else can it be said that those Israelites were our fathers? How else can it be said that Abraham is the father of the faithful. Now if a man is an American (sad example. joke) and he has a son, will his son be an Australian or a Chinese or an Alaskan or an Nigerian? No of course not. His son will also be an American. So if our fathers in the faith are Israelites, doesn't that also make us of the House of Israel? Absolutely.

Romans 4:12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised. 13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
So which part of this passage explains where the promise is removed from the seed of Abraham and put onto a different seed of Christ? There is absolutely none. It clearly shows that the church is the seed of Abraham by the exercising of faith and not by the continuation of law and bloodlines. Who was Abrahams seed. Well there was Isaac and Ishmael. Ishmael was the child of Hagar the bondwoman and Isaac was the child of promise the child of the freewoman. Ishmael was sent away just as the bloodline Jews were cut off the vine for unbelief. We are the children of the freewoman Sarah
Gal 4:28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. 29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now. 30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. 31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

And who was Isaac's children? Jacob and Esau. But one was despised and the other loved
Romans 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;) 12 It was said unto her, The elder [3] shall serve the younger. 13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
Another case where the bloodline heir is rejected for the child of election.

So why am I saying this. To show that the church is a continuation of a vine which was planted long ago with the seed of Abraham; Isaac and Jacob. Now if the church is one with the vine which is Christ, then so too is Israel one with the vine which is Christ. This must be true by simple force of logic. The vine must have existed BEFORE Christ in order for branches to be cut off when they did not believe in Christ. So where was the vine before Christ? Clearly it must have been in Israel.

So therefore Israel is the body of Christ in just the same way as the church is the body of Christ because the church is the spiritual remnant of Israel.
To prove this look at

Hosea 11:1 When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.
Who is he talking about? The people of Israel. Yes that's right. But who else is he talking about? Jesus Christ who when he was two years old fled to Egypt with Joseph and his mother and being called out of Egypt returned
Matt 2:14 When he arose, he took the young child and his mother by night, and departed into Egypt: 15 And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.

So here we have a specific example which shows that one of the names of the Lord Jesus Christ is Israel.

The preexistence of Christ is essential to understanding how Israel of old and Christ are the same vine.
John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. 57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? 58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

And who founded the faith of Abraham? Very important. Jesus Christ founded the faith of Abraham. He was the high priest of the faithful just as he is still the high priest of the church. I am speaking of Melchizadek.
Hebrews 5:5 So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee. 6 As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

You also need to read the entirety of Hebrew 7 which shows that the priesthood of Melchisedek is a continual unbroken priesthood which began back there in Salem of Abrahams day. It shows that Melchisedek was Jesus Christ. It shows that perfection for all Israel came not through the Levitical priesthood but through the priesthood of Melchisek, which is and was an unchanging perpetual priesthood.
Heb 7:24 But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.
Heb 7:1 For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him; 2 To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace; 3 Without father, without mother, without descent, [1] having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.

I hope this helps.

The term "Replacement theology" is a derogatory term used by dispensationalists to mock and discredit believers in the Israel of God. It completely misrepresents the doctrine. There is no replacement at work at all. In fact dispensationalism teaches that Israel was swapped our for the church and then will be swapped in again at the GT. There is more replacing going on in dispensationalism than in the true doctrine (What's the correct term for it, does anyone know?)

The true doctrine is that nothing has been replaced and that God has always worked through a remnant of his people Israel and that the church is the spiritual remnant of Israel with the gentiles being grafted (adopted) into the House of Israel by virtue of their belief in Jesus Christ and their circumcision of the heart.

Which is why it says "For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel". Which means there are others who are of Israel even though they are not descended by blood from Israel (believing gentiles) and also there are some who are descended by blood from Israel who are not of Israel because of their unbelief (unbelieving Jews).

So there is no replacing going on. The vine is not pulled out and another one planted. There is always and only ever will be one and the same vine, but some branches are cut off and other branches are grafted in and the vine keeps growing as it always did before although it grows through the entire world and not just in one small land in the middle east.

Excubitor, what is your problem? You can challenge me without being a jerk about it. What is it with some the folks on this board who don't know how to disagree without being disrespectful, boorish, and haughty? In my writings I try to attack the view, and not the people who hold it. You call me an unprepared and disgraceful coward without bothering to first approach me to make sure that you understand where I am coming from.

Why is it that, time and time again, the folks who are so quick to resort to personal attacks and rash accusations are often guilty of committing the very violations they accuse their 'opponents' of? To be frank, half the time they have no idea what they are talking about - they only think they do. I could name several people on this forum who are self-anointed experts and heresy hunters. They constantly engage in immature prattle while spewing forth a ceaseless stream of venom. They think themselves to be enlightened sources of spiritual illumination to the ignorant and supersticious lesserlites. In reality they are only writing their own folly in bold letters, raising it high on a banner for all to see. I normally just ignore them, which is probably the wisest thing to do.

excubitor... you forget there is a person behind the screen who loves the Lord Jesus and is serving Him the best he knows how. Scott A. Kei