Shekel, on Dec 9 2003, 11:40 PM, said:
This is written for the sake of those who wish to ponder the numeric of this symbolic treaty further. It is fascinating to study, but complex for those unfamiliar with bible prophecy numbers. It is written in brief. This is written with the belief that the current treaty is only symbolic, and is given by God to aid us in understanding the one to come. Perhaps the one to come will simply confirm this one? Hence, I am not saying that we are now in the tribulation period, but that this is a trial run, if you would.
A (symbolic) prototype seven-year tribulation period that begins from fall of 2003 and ends fall of 2010 makes sense in every way, (as we shall see). The symbolic peace treaty (signed Oct. 6, 2003 [to 2010]) is positioned so as to intersect at mid point the said seven-years of AD 2000-2010. The first 7 years (spr. 2000-2007) symbolizes God's Sinai covenant, whereas the symbolic treaty of the fall of 2003 symbolizes the covenant of rebellion of antichrist (fall 2003-2010). (The first is in stone, but the second in clay. The first was broken, but the second will be utterly shattered!) This implies that this present symbolic treaty is an abomination that breaks God's covenant at Mt. Sinai. God's covenant was given on Mount Sinai over a period of one week (Ex. 24), now referred traditionally as "Pentecost week." (A similar pattern is observed at Christ's death in AD 30. Note that Dan. 9:24-27 literally reads as "the middle of the week." The "week" of Dan. 9, signifies both 7 days and a symbolic 7 years. Nevertheless, to reject Jesus [Yeshua] as Messiah is the greatest infraction of the covenant, as Moses said,
"Jehovah thy God will raise up unto thee a prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken; according to all that thou desiredst of Jehovah thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of Jehovah my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not. And Jehovah said unto me, They have well said that which they have spoken. I will raise them up a prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee; and I will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him," (Deut. 18:15-19).
I mentioned how that from the decree of Artaxeres that allowed the walls of Jerusalem to be rebuilt (444 BC), unto this peace treaty were 70 x 7 x 5 years, (490 x 5, or 49 x 50). These are the numbers of the prophecy of Dan. 9 and of the treaty just signed, and they are aligned with one another as such, (and in more ways that can be recounted in this brief synopsis.) There were 4 decrees that fit the prophecy of Dan. 9 as being the countdown of the 490 years (terminus a quo), but the 444 BC decree is the favored one among scholars because it fits the prophecy of Dan. 9 the best, with its emphasis on the rebuilding of the walls, (Dan. 9:24). The rebuilding of the walls is the very theme of the book of Nehemiah. The "weeks" are regarded by most scholars as symbolic of years. I believe it is both. For the benefit of others unfamiliar with the prophecy of Daniel, here is the prophecy:
Dan 9:24 "Seventy weeks are decreed upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most holy.Dan 9:25 Know therefore and discern, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the anointed one, the prince, shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: it shall be built again, with street and moat, even in troublous times.Dan 9:26 And after the threescore and two weeks shall the anointed one be cut off, and shall have nothing: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and even unto the end shall be war; desolations are determined.Dan 9:27 And he shall make a firm covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease; and upon the wing of abominations shall come one that maketh desolate; and even unto the full end, and that determined, shall wrath be poured out upon the desolate." (ASV)
The first of the 4 possible decrees was given the year following the said prophecy of Dan.9, (537 BC.) This was the decree to return to Jerusalem after the Babylonian captivity. In the past I have labored to show that there is a 'mirror' at work in the numbers and that it is an important key to understanding bible numbers. (Mirrorism is also frequent in Hebrew biblical poetry.) It happens that from the first of the 4 possible decrees (537 BC), to the last of the 4 decrees (444 BC) are 490 x 2 years in the mirror. (537 BC to AD 444 is 490 x 2 years. Do not count the zero when passing from BC to AD---a frequent error of many unfamiliar with counting lapsed time. Hence, the average of these two decrees is 490 BC.) This means that there are 490 x 3 years to the present treaty (etc.) as seen "in the mirror," (i.e., as from symbolic AD 537. AD 537 + 490 x 3 years = AD 2007, and less 3.5 and 3.5 years too).
The terminus a quo of the remaining two decrees also crisscross at 490 x 2 years in the mirror, so as to divide the "weeks of years" in half. This causes the 7 year periods to intersect just as we see happening now in the symbolic peace treaty, (as explained earlier). (It took 3.5 years to build the second temple, 520 to 516 BC, [the official 'decree' was decreed a year or so after temple reconstruction began], this, plus 490 x 2 years = AD 461, (less the 3.5 years = AD 458, the mirror of 458 BC---the 3rd decree [of Ezra]. This means that both 520-516 and 458 BC/AD are 490 years to the 3.5-year ministry of Christ, etc., from AD 26 to 30.) And so all the bible numbers work like this: The fall of Israel in 725-722 BC, the fall of Assyria (612 BC) [that captured Israel], and the fall of Babylon in 539 BC [who captured Judah and Jerusalem], all interconnect with one another in the mirror at 1150 ("2300 evenings and mornings" of Dan. 5), 1260 (Rev. 12), and 1335 years (Dan. 12). (The fall of Jerusalem in 586 BC does the same, but on another pattern that uses the 1290 of Dan. 12.) All of these epoch events, in turn, are traced back to the 7-year famine of Joseph in 1878 to 1871 BC by 1150, 1260, 1290 and 1335 years respectively. (The seven-year famine of Joseph is a type of the seven year tribulation period.)
This entire scheme can be shown to interlock with the peace treaty of Dec. 1, 2003, both in literal and symbolic time. (For instance, Nisan 1, 1871 BC---the end of Joseph's 7-year famine---plus 1290 x 3 years = Nisan 1, 2000, plus 1290 days = last day of tabernacles, 2003, [which was 5 days after the first signing of the symbolic peace treaty], and 1335 days to Dec. 1, 2003---the official ceremony of this symbolic peace treaty. Note that 1290 x 3 represent three 3.5-year periods. To be exact, they represent two seven-year periods (i.e., as years of years) that intersect one another at the fall of Jerusalem. (1878-1871 BC famine of Joseph plus 1290 years = 588-581 BC, the siege and final exile of Judah. Jerusalem fell 586 BC, which was 1290 years from when they entered Egypt in 1876 BC, two years into the famine of Joseph.
All these time periods are further broken down into 430-year units, since 1290 is divisible by 3. They were 430 years in Egypt, and the prophet Ezekiel's symbolic Jerusalem siege lasted 430 days, "a day for a year;" his symbolic siege of Jerusalem began almost exactly 7 years before it literally fell on Tammuz 9, of 586 BC. 588-581 BC, plus 1290 x 2 years = AD 1993-2000.) (Note President Clinton's Sept 13, 1993 treaty between Israel and the PLO, upon which the current symbolic treaty is stated to be based.
It is also interesting to note that they arrived on Mt. Sinai 430 years after they entered Egypt. They arrived on Mount Sinai on the 61st day of the year---the year that was designated to be the head of all new years, (Ex. 19:1). (By 'head of years', I mean that the exodus became the first of years, just as Christ's birth is the first of years to us today, [Ex. 12:2]). Then, 430 days after they arrived at Sinai, they attempted to enter the Promised land, but were driven back. God sentenced them to 40 years wandering in the desert, 'a year for each of the 40 days they had spied out the land in unbelief.' This means that they were refused entry into the promised land 430 days and 430 years after they entered Egypt, which was the 490th day since the designated first new year, (i.e., 490 = "70 weeks," see Dan. 9).
Nisan 1, 2000 was also the 144th generation of 40 years from the creation, according to Jewish reckoning. See the 144,000 witnesses of Revelation. It was also 2000 years from the conception of Jesus Christ according to Christian tradition, (40 x 50 years), [His conception was a type of the 'new creation']. Thus, to have a (symbolic) seven-year period that begins from spring of 2000 and ends spring of 2007 makes sense in every way. See websites for further details, (<a href='http://www.bible-codes.org' target='_blank'></a>).
Thanks for the article Shekel, although I am bad at math, this is where I get confused...but I understand the overall points.
I'll never forget when the Arabs where very upset when their was a work crew working on the street by the Wall two years ago I think? Do you know what I am talking about?...and I was lead to read Daniel...without a doubt in my mind I was referred to Daniel 9:25 and showed many of my friends in Bible study...they didn't say anything...
but when I read the verse it was like my spirit jumped.
25. Know theerfore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to RESTORE and to BUILD Jerusalem unto the Mes-si-ah the PRINCE shall be Seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks:
this is the kicker that really JUMPED out at me when reading...at that time I was totally convinced and still wondering now...but God does know all in this I take comfort...he knows what is best for us all...and there are things he will reveal when we need it. at that time I was convinced to SOUND a trumpet and to warn of Jesus' soon return, which I still believe it will be a short time, or else if not all would be consumed. consumed by what...a delusion of truth, and running from God....and LOVE WILL GROW COLD, and FAITH where will it be found...?
and threescore and two weeks: THE STREET shall be built again, and the WALL, even in TROUBLOUS times. Notice the STREET SHALL BE BUILT AGAIN...
what STREET? when I read it they where working on a particular street of which outraged the Moslems?
how does this fit into what the LORD has revealed to you? there was no doubt in my mind when they where working on that street that this was happening at that moment..
and if we look further, we can see all the turmoil NOW because of the continued SETTLEMENTS (RESTORING JERUSALEM) that the Quartet has been against these new settlements and now stepping in to stop them.
Why? Is it because they are fulfilling prophecy and they know it?
EVEN SO COME LORD JESUS COME.
now as you look at Daniel verse 26...And after threescore and two weeks shall Mes-si-ah be cut off, BUT NOT FOR HIMSELF: and the PEOPLE OF THE PRINCE, that shall destroy the city and the sanctuary: and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto to THE END OF THE WAR DESOLATIONS ARE DETERMINED.
end of what WAR...? DESOLATIONS DETERMINED? by whom and to whom?
.my spirit says the Iraq war.perhaps? as another war waits in the wings?
..and as we all can see now there are many uprisings around the WORLD by terrorists cells, and RUMORS of war...... GOVERNED BY WHOM and for WHAT PURPOSE? UNTIL THE DESOLATIONS BE DETERMINED?
UNTIL THEY MAKE THE PEOPLE DESOLATE? as by the control of corrupt governments throughout...cause people to become desolate and dependent on them and not God...and the mark of the beast being in the wings...although my Bible doesn't say Wings as yours does....I am writing from the KJV.
And HE (a person) shall CONFIRM the Covenant WITH MANY for ONE WEEK: and in the midst of the week, he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation and that DETERMINED shall be POURED UPON THE DESOLATE...
now we all know that GOD works with us and chastises us because he loves us, not to destroy but to RESTORE, and for everything that the LORD wants for our good, Satan will take the same and try to use it for his own Glory and to STEAL, KILL and DESTROY...not so with our Heavenly Father.
now let us turn to Ish.10:23......yes Shekel (it is both) and here is the verse to prove it.
A remnant of Israel to Be Saved.
the whole chapter actually is well worth to read...
WOE unto THEM THAT DECREE UNRIGHTEOUSNESS DECREES, and that write grievousness which THEY HAVE PRESCRIBED:
2. to turn aside the needy from judgment, and to take away the RIGHT from the poor of my people, that widows may be their prey, and that they may rob the FATHERLESS..
oh how we see this slavery throughout many countries suffering at the hands of LAWLESSNESS and unrighteous behavior and manipulation and blood thirsty beasts.
wow is the a RIGHT now generation or what?
3. And what will ye do in the day of visitation, and in the desolation which shall come from far? to whom will ye flee for help? and where will ye leave your glory?
and HIS HAND IS STRETCHED OUT STILL...as you said Shekel his mercy, time is HIS ALONE.
then skipping to 20:
And it shall come to pass in that day, that the REMNANT of Israel, and such as are escaped of the house of Jacob, shall no more again stay upon him that smote them: but shall stay UPON THE LORD, the HOLY ONE OF ISRAEL, IN TRUTH...AMEN what a glorious day the Glory of the LORD SHALL BE SEEN IN THE BORDERS OF ISRAEL...that is a promise..
21. The remnant shall return, even the remnant of Jacob, unto the Mighty God.
NOW we see the comparison of Daniel 9 verses:
22. For though thy people Israel be as the sand of the sea, yet a remnant of them shall return: (as they are NOW) the consumption DECREED SHALL OVERFLOW WITH RIGHTEOUSNESS...
OVERFLOW WITH RIGHTEOUSNESS...oh what a day. HAPPY DAY
23. FOR THE LORD GOD OF HOSTS SHALL MAKE A CONSUMPTION, EVEN DETERMINED, in the MIDST OF ALL THE LAND.
as you SEE THE LORD HAS HIS OWN PLAN, so does Satan be he loses.
24. Therefore thus saith the LORD GOD of hosts, O my people that dwellest in Zion, BE NOT AFRAID, of the Assyrian: he shall smite thee with a rod, and shall lift up his staff against thee, after the manner of Egypt.
24 Is the verse, Miche ? that you where wondering about when you said about the staff against Israel and a rod (the Assyrian)
now as far as the wing here is an interesting verse as well in Isaiah 10:14
And my hand hath found as a NEST THE RICHES OF THE PEOPLE: and as one gatherith EGGS (like Miki's dream a while back) THAT ARE LEFT, have I gathered all the earth: and there was none that moved the WING? or opened the mouth, or peeped.
15. Shall the axe boast itself against him that heweth therewith? or shall the saw magnify itself against him that shaketh it? as if the rod should shake itself against them that lift it up, or as if the staff should lift up itself, as if it were no wood.
16. Therefore shall the LORD, the LORD of hosts, send among his fat ones leanness: and under his glory he shall kindle a burning like the burning of fire.
I've always wondered if the Jews that now are, those that made it through WW2 and all the horrors, are now the generation of the remnant, I pray so, that they never have to endure what they did in that horrible war...and that they turn to Jesus Now...Jesus does always give us choice, to choose LIFE or to Choose Death...death is not being in the presence of God, a choice not to love and be loved, receive his love..although I still pray for God's mercy in all situations for he tells us in the Sermon of the Mount many wonderful promises.... he loves mercy more than wrath. and why else would the LORD ask us to pray for all Israel to be saved?
This post has been edited by wernotalone: 23 December 2008 - 01:04 PM