[rtkiii66]

Humble Bob, on Jul 8 2006, 10:36 AM, said:

I am glad for the inspiration you felt, Leia.  May the Holy Spirit deepen your understanding and faith even more.

Here's the kicker, and I'll just say it.  The only time the cross was truely ever vacant was before Christ was crucified.  There was nothing there and so the cross was meaning less.  But when Christ was crucified, sin was drawn onto Christ as a great serpent and it had wrapped himself around our savior.  Sin was drawn to Christ because our Lord was sinless and every man must unwillingly bear the burden of sin for that was our inheritance.  And the serpent tried to enter Christ to soil him with sin so as to make certain his death, but when Christ finally died sin failed to enter our saviour onto the last of our Lord's breath, and his body was taken down.

But lo and behold!  The serpent is trapped, and no longer free to roam amongst man to burden itself unwillingly onto man.  In the place of our savior the serpent now hangs on the cross trapped never to escape again!

In the mean while, Christ is resurrected.  The grave could not hold him because our Lord is without sin and it's wages could not be collected from him.

At the end of time on the day of judgement, the cross bearing the serpent will be cast into the lake of fire, and that is how sin will be destroyed forever. 

Now you understand the meaning of what Moses had done and of the meaning of the cross.
Amen.

This is how doctrines of men begin. Very creative though HB.

Quote

But lo and behold!  The serpent is trapped, and no longer free to roam amongst man to burden itself unwillingly onto man.  In the place of our savior the serpent now hangs on the cross trapped never to escape again!

1Pe 5:6 Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time:
1Pe 5:7 Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you.
1Pe 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
1Pe 5:9 Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.
1Pe 5:10 But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.
1Pe 5:11 To him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

[Humble Bob]

rtkiii66, on Jul 8 2006, 01:22 PM, said:

Humble Bob, on Jul 8 2006, 10:36 AM, said:

I am glad for the inspiration you felt, Leia.  May the Holy Spirit deepen your understanding and faith even more.

Here's the kicker, and I'll just say it.  The only time the cross was truely ever vacant was before Christ was crucified.  There was nothing there and so the cross was meaning less.  But when Christ was crucified, sin was drawn onto Christ as a great serpent and it had wrapped himself around our savior.  Sin was drawn to Christ because our Lord was sinless and every man must unwillingly bear the burden of sin for that was our inheritance.  And the serpent tried to enter Christ to soil him with sin so as to make certain his death, but when Christ finally died sin failed to enter our saviour onto the last of our Lord's breath, and his body was taken down.

But lo and behold!  The serpent is trapped, and no longer free to roam amongst man to burden itself unwillingly onto man.  In the place of our savior the serpent now hangs on the cross trapped never to escape again!

In the mean while, Christ is resurrected.  The grave could not hold him because our Lord is without sin and it's wages could not be collected from him.

At the end of time on the day of judgement, the cross bearing the serpent will be cast into the lake of fire, and that is how sin will be destroyed forever. 

Now you understand the meaning of what Moses had done and of the meaning of the cross.
Amen.

This is how doctrines of men begin. Very creative though HB.

Quote

But lo and behold!  The serpent is trapped, and no longer free to roam amongst man to burden itself unwillingly onto man.  In the place of our savior the serpent now hangs on the cross trapped never to escape again!

1Pe 5:6 Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time:
1Pe 5:7 Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you.
1Pe 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
1Pe 5:9 Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.
1Pe 5:10 But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.
1Pe 5:11 To him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Hi RTK. Yes, the doctrine of men, that comes from men has an aire of vainity. It's how you can tell it's false. Man takes the word of God, strives to master it, cite it, quote it and interpret it all the while thinking he now knows it "I spend years reading the bible, studying every word and phrase. I have schooling and learning and a degree that qualifies me." Then they insult God believing they own the word from their long and laborious studies.

Who else did labor long thinking their works would please God but their works was vanity? Cain did, and of course he rose up to slew his brother Abel.

This happens when anyone accuses another of false doctrine. The spirit of man's vanity seeths and swells inside him for he thinks he speaks with God's voice.

So, thousands of years ago men did lay their hands on the Gospel and in their doctrine put Christ back on the cross to try and keep him there. Why? To hide from those that a serpent now hangs on the cross, for Christ was taken down and was resurrected.

You yourself even said it that one who hangs on the tree is cursed. It is one thing to be cursed by evil and another to be cursed by good. Evil that curses carries no authority and it is a lie, but the good that curses is a fearful and frightening thing; it is the authority to banish forever from the sight of what is good. Although Christ was cursed by evil he was never cursed by good, so how can anyone who is good claim Christ was cursed? Only evil that is the serpent can claim that. Being that the serpent is trapped, he thus hides on the crucifix by putting Christ back on the cross and showing this to people. Look around you and see any church that displays our saviour on the cross. Not only do they make a graven image of Christ, but in doing so, they insist he is still there hanging on the cross! Yes RTK, that is the doctrine of men, and it began over a thousand years ago after Christ was taken down from the cross and resurrected.

[rtkiii66]

As we tap dance off into the sunset. thanks HB your a hoot!

[Humble Bob]

rtkiii66, on Jul 8 2006, 04:09 PM, said:

As we tap dance off into the sunset.  thanks HB your a hoot!

I still love your bear avatar

[Love123]

Humble Bob, on Jul 4 2006, 10:56 PM, said:

Recently someone posted a response about how the Gospel doesn't stand or fall with the cross represented at Mt. Soledad, San Diego. His comment, I felt, was general to any symbolic representation of the cross, and it got me to wonder "what is the real depth and meaning to the cross?  Is it more than a symbol?  Does it matter if the cross at Mt. Soledad were to come down?" Personally, I am glad that it has endured so far.

Rather than respond directly I felt moved to post this thread as a study to this hypothesis; is the Gospel independent of a symbol that is the cross?

As with any study I have posted I always entreat upon the Lord a prayer for guidance and understanding.  Lord, I pray your Holy Spirit will grant wisdom and inspire a sincere understanding to the meaning of the cross.  Let this be a a good thread that honors your name, in Jesus' name, Amen.

I am led to start with Numbers 21:9

Numbers 21:9
And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived.

In this instance what Moses had done was to clearly create an icon, a symbol out of material, at the Lord's instruction.  Yet this symbol, being immaterial, imparted the Lord's power to save those who had looked upon it, and for those who did not died.  This is very compelling to me to believe the symbol of the cross has a "mystical" connection to the Lord; his presence being around it for it inspires one to look upon the cross and see it more than just a crucifix.  It is the symbol of the resurrection and the life of Jesus Christ.

Now, why did the Lord choose a serpent to hang on a pole?  This was a symbol, according to the bible, that Moses did fashion and that it literally saved people from dying after being bitten by the snakes that were in the vally they travelled through.  Today, that symbol is often represented with Christ fastened on the crucifix.  So, could God have told Moses to fashion a man on a pole and it would have had the same effect?  No.  The Lord told Moses to fashion a serpent on a pole, why a serpent then, and why Christ on the crucifix today?

Your comments are welcomed and please any referencing scriptures will be very helpful to this discussion.

The cross was once a tree.

Consider, Jesus- the tree of Life..........
A tree has roots................deep roots......

As we come to the cross............sinners........saved through blood of the cross, as Christ permitted us to crucify Him........that we may have eternal life with Him.
We become a part of Christ roots ............

Also...............in order to produce good fruit............roots need nourishment.........
Spiritual nourishment... the food of God.

We also represent trees bearing fruit...... by their fruits you shall know them.


God Bless