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Which Commandments? Those That Endure Rate Topic: -----

#19 User is offline   Shekel 

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Post icon  Posted 09 February 2006 - 05:39 PM

It seemed to be implied that what I said was by a bible code. This is not true. Below are the scriptures that I used and them only.

The examples below show that Paul on several occasions talked about the danger of reverting back to Judaism as evident by their keeping of Sabbath days. Mr. David says that this refers to the festive sabbaths, not the weekly ones. Now we know that Paul was the apostle to the Gentiles --- Gentiles who did not keep the Sabbath. But you would have us to believe that Paul very much wanted the Gentiles to keep the Sabbath --- and that anyone who teaches otherwise abides in sin. How confusing is that! Paul, where is you ability to speak! This is confusing for these Gentiles! Apostle Paul, you should qualify what you wrote and have your letter read this way: (I have helped you be more clear Paul! I have even put it in red!)

Gal 4:9 but now that ye have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how turn ye back again to the weak and beggarly rudiments, whereunto ye desire to be in bondage over again?
Gal 4:10 Ye observe days, and months, and seasons, and years. (Except Sabbath days my beloved, We must keep the seventh day.)
Gal 4:11 I am afraid of you, lest by any means I have bestowed labor upon you in vain.

Let me continue to help Paul be more clear by adding some extra words in his mouth. Since so many are doing that, I will too!

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of a feast day or a new moon or a sabbath day: (This is not to confuse the regular "Sabbath day" with the "feast day", which is also a "Sabbath day" --- sorry for being so confusing my beloved! I meant to just say "...feast day or a new moon..." but I guess I got carried away, afterall, the feast day is a sabbath day and I don't want you to think I meant the regular Sabbath! And the way I first wrote it would mean that you don't have to keep the regular seventh day sabbath --- which I said by accident!)
Col 2:17 which are a shadow of the things to come; but the body is Christ's.

Rom 14:4 Who art thou that judgest the servant of another? to his own lord he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be made to stand; for the Lord hath power to make him stand.
Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let each man be fully assured in his own mind.
Rom 14:6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord: (But, I Paul would like to add that this doesn't mean the regular Sabbath day even though I know that this is what you would naturally have understood me to mean. Don't think so naturally! Read between the lines! "Do not keep the Sabbath if you like, but you must keep the Sabbath!") :blink:

Enough of the sarcasim to make a point: :blink:

Beloved, give these passages of the bible (as seen below) to Jewish scholars who are not Christians and ask them what they mean. Would they agree with your interpretation Mr David and Bob, or would they read it as it is without bias? No, but the truth is obvious. Either Paul is a very poor communicater of truth or you have a problem of hearing truth. It is one or the other. Which do you choose to believe? And it is not I who needs to get down on my knees and ask forgiveness but you, for Paul came out very hard against those who sought to bring God's little ones back under law --- "You have fallen from grace!"


============================

QUOTE(Shekel @ Feb 9 2006, 10:12 AM)
QUOTE(charlie @ Feb 9 2006, 04:49 AM)
Man was made for Christ to save. The Sabbath is God's rest when Christ sets up the kingdom and puts away the devil and his messengers.

Charlie

Wisely said Charlie, wisely said!

The bible speaks for itself. I have enboldened in purple the verses especially pertinent. The rest is for context... Chirst is our Sabbath! We are not under law but under grace. It is a slippery road for those that wish to be under the law again. The keeping of one law logically leads to another until all is undone and Christ died for nothing!

Gal 4:9 but now that ye have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how turn ye back again to the weak and beggarly rudiments, whereunto ye desire to be in bondage over again?
Gal 4:10 Ye observe days, and months, and seasons, and years.
Gal 4:11 I am afraid of you, lest by any means I have bestowed labor upon you in vain.

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of a feast day or a new moon or a sabbath day:
Col 2:17 which are a shadow of the things to come; but the body is Christ's.

Rom 14:4 Who art thou that judgest the servant of another? to his own lord he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be made to stand; for the Lord hath power to make him stand.
Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let each man be fully assured in his own mind.
Rom 14:6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord: and he that eateth, eateth unto the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, unto the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

Heb 3:1 Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of a heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our confession, even Jesus;
Heb 3:2 who was faithful to him that appointed him, as also was Moses in all his house.
Heb 3:3 For he hath been counted worthy of more glory than Moses, by so much as he that built the house hath more honor than the house.
Heb 3:4 For every house is builded by some one; but he that built all things is God.
Heb 3:5 And Moses indeed was faithful in all his house as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were afterward to be spoken;
Heb 3:6 but Christ as a son, over his house; whose house are we, if we hold fast our boldness and the glorying of our hope firm unto the end.
Heb 3:7 Wherefore, even as the Holy Spirit saith, To-day if ye shall hear his voice,
Heb 3:8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, Like as in the day of the trial in the wilderness,
Heb 3:9 Where your fathers tried me by proving me, And saw my works forty years.
Heb 3:10 Wherefore I was displeased with this generation, And said, They do always err in their heart: But they did not know my ways;
Heb 3:11 As I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.
Heb 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest haply there shall be in any one of you an evil heart of unbelief, in falling away from the living God:
Heb 3:13 but exhort one another day by day, so long as it is called To-day; lest any one of you be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin:
Heb 3:14 for we are become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our confidence firm unto the end:
Heb 3:15 while it is said, To-day if ye shall hear his voice, Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.
Heb 3:16 For who, when they heard, did provoke? nay, did not all they that came out of Egypt by Moses?
Heb 3:17 And with whom was he displeased forty years? was it not with them that sinned, whose bodies fell in the wilderness?
Heb 3:18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that were disobedient?
Heb 3:19 And we see that they were not able to enter in because of unbelief.

Heb 4:1 Let us fear therefore, lest haply, a promise being left of entering into his rest, any one of you should seem to have come short of it.
Heb 4:2 For indeed we have had good tidings preached unto us, even as also they: but the word of hearing did not profit them, because it was not united by faith with them that heard.
Heb 4:3 For we who have believed do enter into that rest; even as he hath said, As I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
Heb 4:4 For he hath said somewhere of the seventh day on this wise, And God rested on the seventh day from all his works;
Heb 4:5 and in this place again, They shall not enter into my rest.
Heb 4:6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some should enter thereinto, and they to whom the good tidings were before preached failed to enter in because of disobedience,
Heb 4:7 he again defineth a certain day, To-day, saying in David so long a time afterward (even as hath been said before), To-day if ye shall hear his voice, Harden not your hearts.
Heb 4:8 For if Joshua had given them rest, he would not have spoken afterward of another day.
Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a sabbath rest for the people of God.
Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest hath himself also rested from his works, as God did from his.
Heb 4:11 Let us therefore give diligence to enter into that rest, that no man fall after the same example of disobedience.
Heb 4:12 For the word of God is living, and active, and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing even to the dividing of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and quick to discern the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Heb 4:13 And there is no creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and laid open before the eyes of him with whom we have to do.
Heb 4:14 Having then a great high priest, who hath passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession.
Heb 4:15 For we have not a high priest that cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but one that hath been in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
Heb 4:16 Let us therefore draw near with boldness unto the throne of grace, that we may receive mercy, and may find grace to help us in time of need.






Jesus is also Lord of the Sabbath!

Mar 2:24 And the Pharisees said unto him, Behold, why do they on the sabbath day that which is not lawful?
Mar 2:25 And he said unto them, Did ye never read what David did, when he had need, and was hungry, he, and they that were with him?
Mar 2:26 How he entered into the house of God when Abiathar was high priest, and ate the showbread, which it is not lawful to eat save for the priests, and gave also to them that were with him?
Mar 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
Mar 2:28 so that the Son of man is lord even of the sabbath.

All these things have been fulfilled in Christ. ALL THINGS! Not some things! All things were tokens and signs pointing to Him, and the shell of things are left behind for the sustance, which is Christ. Moses built the house, but God built everything including Moses! The Sabbath was instituted and existed from the first creation (and affirmed by the law of Moses) until the new creation. Jesus is the new creation so the old has passed! This is why it says in the concluding verses of Galations:

Gal 6:15 For neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
Gal 6:16 And as many as shall walk by this rule, peace be upon them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.
Gal 6:17 Henceforth, let no man trouble me; for I bear branded on my body the marks of Jesus.
Gal 6:18 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit, brethren. Amen.

And as it said earlier in Galations:

Gal 4:1 But I say that so long as the heir is a child, he differeth nothing from a bondservant though he is lord of all;
Gal 4:2 but is under guardians and stewards until the day appointed of the father.
Gal 4:3 So we also, when we were children, were held in bondage under the rudiments of the world:
Gal 4:4 but when the fulness of the time came, God sent forth his Son, born of a woman, born under the law,
Gal 4:5 that he might redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
Gal 4:6 And because ye are sons, God sent forth the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
Gal 4:7 So that thou art no longer a bondservant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir through God.
Gal 4:8 Howbeit at that time, not knowing God, ye were in bondage to them that by nature are no gods:
Gal 4:9 but now that ye have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how turn ye back again to the weak and beggarly rudiments, whereunto ye desire to be in bondage over again?
Gal 4:10 Ye observe days, and months, and seasons, and years.
Gal 4:11 I am afraid of you, lest by any means I have bestowed labor upon you in vain.

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#20 User is offline   Humble Bob 

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Posted 09 February 2006 - 05:55 PM

Shekel, on Feb 9 2006, 05:39 PM, said:

It seemed to be implied that what I said was by a bible code. This is not true. Below are the scriptures that I used and them only.

The examples below show that Paul on several occasions talked about the danger of reverting back to Judaism as evident by their keeping of Sabbath days. Mr. David says that this refers to the festive sabbaths, not the weekly ones. Now we know that Paul was the apostle to the Gentiles --- Gentiles who did not keep the Sabbath. But you are telling us that Paul very much wants the Gentiles to keep the Sabbath --- and that anyone who teaches otherwise abides in sin. Would it not be confusing for these Gentiles by Paul saying that we don't have to keep Sabbath days yet failing to qualify that by saying that the seventh day sabbath is different, and that we are in fact to keep that --- even on pain of hell (as you imply)?

Give these passages of the bible (as seen below) to Jewish scholars who are not Christians and ask them what they mean. Would they agree with your interpretation Mr David and Bob, or would they read it as it is without bias? No, but the truth is obvious. Either Paul is a very poor communicater of truth or you have a problem of hearing truth. It is one or the other. Which do you choose to believe? And it is not I who needs to get down on my knees and ask forgiveness but you, for Paul came out very hard against those who sought to bring God's little ones back under law --- "You have fallen from grace!"


============================

QUOTE(Shekel @ Feb 9 2006, 10:12 AM)
QUOTE(charlie @ Feb 9 2006, 04:49 AM)
Man was made for Christ to save. The Sabbath is God's rest when Christ sets up the kingdom and puts away the devil and his messengers.

Charlie

Wisely said Charlie, wisely said!

The bible speaks for itself. I have enboldened in purple the verses especially pertinent. The rest is for context... Chirst is our Sabbath!  We are not under law but under grace.  It is a slippery road for those that wish to be under the law again. The keeping of one law logically leads to another until all is undone and Christ died for nothing! 

Gal 4:9 but now that ye have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how turn ye back again to the weak and beggarly rudiments, whereunto ye desire to be in bondage over again?
Gal 4:10 Ye observe days, and months, and seasons, and years.
Gal 4:11 I am afraid of you, lest by any means I have bestowed labor upon you in vain.

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of a feast day or a new moon or a sabbath day:
Col 2:17 which are a shadow of the things to come; but the body is Christ's.

Rom 14:4 Who art thou that judgest the servant of another? to his own lord he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be made to stand; for the Lord hath power to make him stand.
Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let each man be fully assured in his own mind.
Rom 14:6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord: and he that eateth, eateth unto the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, unto the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

Heb 3:1 Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of a heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our confession, even Jesus;
Heb 3:2 who was faithful to him that appointed him, as also was Moses in all his house.
Heb 3:3 For he hath been counted worthy of more glory than Moses, by so much as he that built the house hath more honor than the house.
Heb 3:4 For every house is builded by some one; but he that built all things is God.
Heb 3:5 And Moses indeed was faithful in all his house as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were afterward to be spoken;
Heb 3:6 but Christ as a son, over his house; whose house are we, if we hold fast our boldness and the glorying of our hope firm unto the end.
Heb 3:7 Wherefore, even as the Holy Spirit saith, To-day if ye shall hear his voice,
Heb 3:8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, Like as in the day of the trial in the wilderness,
Heb 3:9 Where your fathers tried me by proving me, And saw my works forty years.
Heb 3:10 Wherefore I was displeased with this generation, And said, They do always err in their heart: But they did not know my ways;
Heb 3:11 As I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.
Heb 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest haply there shall be in any one of you an evil heart of unbelief, in falling away from the living God:
Heb 3:13 but exhort one another day by day, so long as it is called To-day; lest any one of you be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin:
Heb 3:14 for we are become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our confidence firm unto the end:
Heb 3:15 while it is said, To-day if ye shall hear his voice, Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.
Heb 3:16 For who, when they heard, did provoke? nay, did not all they that came out of Egypt by Moses?
Heb 3:17 And with whom was he displeased forty years? was it not with them that sinned, whose bodies fell in the wilderness?
Heb 3:18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that were disobedient?
Heb 3:19 And we see that they were not able to enter in because of unbelief.

Heb 4:1 Let us fear therefore, lest haply, a promise being left of entering into his rest, any one of you should seem to have come short of it.
Heb 4:2 For indeed we have had good tidings preached unto us, even as also they: but the word of hearing did not profit them, because it was not united by faith with them that heard.
Heb 4:3 For we who have believed do enter into that rest; even as he hath said, As I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
Heb 4:4 For he hath said somewhere of the seventh day on this wise, And God rested on the seventh day from all his works;
Heb 4:5 and in this place again, They shall not enter into my rest.
Heb 4:6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some should enter thereinto, and they to whom the good tidings were before preached failed to enter in because of disobedience,
Heb 4:7 he again defineth a certain day, To-day, saying in David so long a time afterward (even as hath been said before), To-day if ye shall hear his voice, Harden not your hearts.
Heb 4:8 For if Joshua had given them rest, he would not have spoken afterward of another day.
Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a sabbath rest for the people of God.
Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest hath himself also rested from his works, as God did from his.
Heb 4:11 Let us therefore give diligence to enter into that rest, that no man fall after the same example of disobedience.
Heb 4:12 For the word of God is living, and active, and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing even to the dividing of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and quick to discern the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Heb 4:13 And there is no creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and laid open before the eyes of him with whom we have to do.
Heb 4:14 Having then a great high priest, who hath passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession.
Heb 4:15 For we have not a high priest that cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but one that hath been in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
Heb 4:16 Let us therefore draw near with boldness unto the throne of grace, that we may receive mercy, and may find grace to help us in time of need.






Jesus is also Lord of the Sabbath!

Mar 2:24 And the Pharisees said unto him, Behold, why do they on the sabbath day that which is not lawful?
Mar 2:25 And he said unto them, Did ye never read what David did, when he had need, and was hungry, he, and they that were with him?
Mar 2:26 How he entered into the house of God when Abiathar was high priest, and ate the showbread, which it is not lawful to eat save for the priests, and gave also to them that were with him?
Mar 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
Mar 2:28 so that the Son of man is lord even of the sabbath.

All these things have been fulfilled in Christ. ALL THINGS! Not some things! All things were tokens and signs pointing to Him, and the shell of things are left behind for the sustance, which is Christ. Moses built the house, but God built everything including Moses! The Sabbath was instituted and existed from the first creation (and affirmed by the law of Moses) until the new creation. Jesus is the new creation so the old has passed! This is why it says in the concluding verses of Galations:

Gal 6:15 For neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
Gal 6:16 And as many as shall walk by this rule, peace be upon them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.
Gal 6:17 Henceforth, let no man trouble me; for I bear branded on my body the marks of Jesus.
Gal 6:18 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit, brethren. Amen.

And as it said earlier in Galations:

Gal 4:1 But I say that so long as the heir is a child, he differeth nothing from a bondservant though he is lord of all;
Gal 4:2 but is under guardians and stewards until the day appointed of the father.
Gal 4:3 So we also, when we were children, were held in bondage under the rudiments of the world:
Gal 4:4 but when the fulness of the time came, God sent forth his Son, born of a woman, born under the law,
Gal 4:5 that he might redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
Gal 4:6 And because ye are sons, God sent forth the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
Gal 4:7 So that thou art no longer a bondservant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir through God.
Gal 4:8 Howbeit at that time, not knowing God, ye were in bondage to them that by nature are no gods:
Gal 4:9 but now that ye have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how turn ye back again to the weak and beggarly rudiments, whereunto ye desire to be in bondage over again?
Gal 4:10 Ye observe days, and months, and seasons, and years.
Gal 4:11 I am afraid of you, lest by any means I have bestowed labor upon you in vain.

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I don't get it, Shekel :(
Yes, God does not play dice, but man does

The indifferent person is worse than the one with ill intention

The only good thing about fear is finding courage

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#21 User is offline   Shekel 

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Posted 09 February 2006 - 06:01 PM

Ok Bob, I will say it again... This time I added some more thoughts for clarity.

=================
It seemed to be implied that what I said was by a bible code. This is not true. Below are the scriptures that I used and them only.

The examples below show that Paul on several occasions talked about the danger of reverting back to Judaism as evident by their keeping of Sabbath days. Mr. David says that this refers to the festive sabbaths, not the weekly ones. Now we know that Paul was the apostle to the Gentiles --- Gentiles who did not keep the Sabbath. But you would have us to believe that Paul very much wanted the Gentiles to keep the Sabbath --- and that anyone who teaches otherwise abides in sin. How confusing is that! Paul, where is you ability to speak! This is confusing for these Gentiles! Apostle Paul, you should qualify what you wrote and have your letter read this way: (I have helped you be more clear Paul! I have even put it in red!)

Gal 4:9 but now that ye have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how turn ye back again to the weak and beggarly rudiments, whereunto ye desire to be in bondage over again?
Gal 4:10 Ye observe days, and months, and seasons, and years. (Except Sabbath days my beloved, We must keep the seventh day.)
Gal 4:11 I am afraid of you, lest by any means I have bestowed labor upon you in vain.

Let me continue to help Paul be more clear by adding some extra words in his mouth. Since so many are doing that, I will too!

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of a feast day or a new moon or a sabbath day: (This is not to confuse the regular "Sabbath day" with the "feast day", which is also a "Sabbath day" --- sorry for being so confusing my beloved! I meant to just say "...feast day or a new moon..." but I guess I got carried away, afterall, the feast day is a sabbath day and I don't want you to think I meant the regular Sabbath! And the way I first wrote it would mean that you don't have to keep the regular seventh day sabbath --- which I said by accident!)
Col 2:17 which are a shadow of the things to come; but the body is Christ's.

Rom 14:4 Who art thou that judgest the servant of another? to his own lord he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be made to stand; for the Lord hath power to make him stand.
Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let each man be fully assured in his own mind.
Rom 14:6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord: (But, I Paul would like to add that this doesn't mean the regular Sabbath day even though I know that this is what you would naturally have understood me to mean. Don't think so naturally! Read between the lines! "Do not keep the Sabbath if you like, but you must keep the Sabbath!") :blink:

Enough of the sarcasim to make a point: :blink:

Beloved, give these passages of the bible (as seen below) to Jewish scholars who are not Christians and ask them what they mean. Would they agree with your interpretation Mr David and Bob, or would they read it as it is without bias? No, but the truth is obvious. Either Paul is a very poor communicater of truth or you have a problem of hearing truth. It is one or the other. Which do you choose to believe? And it is not I who needs to get down on my knees and ask forgiveness but you, for Paul came out very hard against those who sought to bring God's little ones back under law --- "You have fallen from grace!"


============================

QUOTE(Shekel @ Feb 9 2006, 10:12 AM)
QUOTE(charlie @ Feb 9 2006, 04:49 AM)
Man was made for Christ to save. The Sabbath is God's rest when Christ sets up the kingdom and puts away the devil and his messengers.

Charlie

Wisely said Charlie, wisely said!

The bible speaks for itself. I have enboldened in purple the verses especially pertinent. The rest is for context... Chirst is our Sabbath! We are not under law but under grace. It is a slippery road for those that wish to be under the law again. The keeping of one law logically leads to another until all is undone and Christ died for nothing!

Gal 4:9 but now that ye have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how turn ye back again to the weak and beggarly rudiments, whereunto ye desire to be in bondage over again?
Gal 4:10 Ye observe days, and months, and seasons, and years.
Gal 4:11 I am afraid of you, lest by any means I have bestowed labor upon you in vain.

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of a feast day or a new moon or a sabbath day:
Col 2:17 which are a shadow of the things to come; but the body is Christ's.

Rom 14:4 Who art thou that judgest the servant of another? to his own lord he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be made to stand; for the Lord hath power to make him stand.
Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let each man be fully assured in his own mind.
Rom 14:6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord: and he that eateth, eateth unto the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, unto the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

Heb 3:1 Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of a heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our confession, even Jesus;
Heb 3:2 who was faithful to him that appointed him, as also was Moses in all his house.
Heb 3:3 For he hath been counted worthy of more glory than Moses, by so much as he that built the house hath more honor than the house.
Heb 3:4 For every house is builded by some one; but he that built all things is God.
Heb 3:5 And Moses indeed was faithful in all his house as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were afterward to be spoken;
Heb 3:6 but Christ as a son, over his house; whose house are we, if we hold fast our boldness and the glorying of our hope firm unto the end.
Heb 3:7 Wherefore, even as the Holy Spirit saith, To-day if ye shall hear his voice,
Heb 3:8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, Like as in the day of the trial in the wilderness,
Heb 3:9 Where your fathers tried me by proving me, And saw my works forty years.
Heb 3:10 Wherefore I was displeased with this generation, And said, They do always err in their heart: But they did not know my ways;
Heb 3:11 As I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.
Heb 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest haply there shall be in any one of you an evil heart of unbelief, in falling away from the living God:
Heb 3:13 but exhort one another day by day, so long as it is called To-day; lest any one of you be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin:
Heb 3:14 for we are become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our confidence firm unto the end:
Heb 3:15 while it is said, To-day if ye shall hear his voice, Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.
Heb 3:16 For who, when they heard, did provoke? nay, did not all they that came out of Egypt by Moses?
Heb 3:17 And with whom was he displeased forty years? was it not with them that sinned, whose bodies fell in the wilderness?
Heb 3:18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that were disobedient?
Heb 3:19 And we see that they were not able to enter in because of unbelief.

Heb 4:1 Let us fear therefore, lest haply, a promise being left of entering into his rest, any one of you should seem to have come short of it.
Heb 4:2 For indeed we have had good tidings preached unto us, even as also they: but the word of hearing did not profit them, because it was not united by faith with them that heard.
Heb 4:3 For we who have believed do enter into that rest; even as he hath said, As I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
Heb 4:4 For he hath said somewhere of the seventh day on this wise, And God rested on the seventh day from all his works;
Heb 4:5 and in this place again, They shall not enter into my rest.
Heb 4:6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some should enter thereinto, and they to whom the good tidings were before preached failed to enter in because of disobedience,
Heb 4:7 he again defineth a certain day, To-day, saying in David so long a time afterward (even as hath been said before), To-day if ye shall hear his voice, Harden not your hearts.
Heb 4:8 For if Joshua had given them rest, he would not have spoken afterward of another day.
Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a sabbath rest for the people of God.
Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest hath himself also rested from his works, as God did from his.
Heb 4:11 Let us therefore give diligence to enter into that rest, that no man fall after the same example of disobedience.
Heb 4:12 For the word of God is living, and active, and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing even to the dividing of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and quick to discern the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Heb 4:13 And there is no creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and laid open before the eyes of him with whom we have to do.
Heb 4:14 Having then a great high priest, who hath passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession.
Heb 4:15 For we have not a high priest that cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but one that hath been in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
Heb 4:16 Let us therefore draw near with boldness unto the throne of grace, that we may receive mercy, and may find grace to help us in time of need.



Jesus is also Lord of the Sabbath!

Mar 2:24 And the Pharisees said unto him, Behold, why do they on the sabbath day that which is not lawful?
Mar 2:25 And he said unto them, Did ye never read what David did, when he had need, and was hungry, he, and they that were with him?
Mar 2:26 How he entered into the house of God when Abiathar was high priest, and ate the showbread, which it is not lawful to eat save for the priests, and gave also to them that were with him?
Mar 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
Mar 2:28 so that the Son of man is lord even of the sabbath.

All these things have been fulfilled in Christ. ALL THINGS! Not some things! All things were tokens and signs pointing to Him, and the shell of things are left behind for the sustance, which is Christ. Moses built the house, but God built everything including Moses! The Sabbath was instituted and existed from the first creation (and affirmed by the law of Moses) until the new creation. Jesus is the new creation so the old has passed! This is why it says in the concluding verses of Galations:

Gal 6:15 For neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
Gal 6:16 And as many as shall walk by this rule, peace be upon them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.
Gal 6:17 Henceforth, let no man trouble me; for I bear branded on my body the marks of Jesus.
Gal 6:18 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit, brethren. Amen.

And as it said earlier in Galations:

Gal 4:1 But I say that so long as the heir is a child, he differeth nothing from a bondservant though he is lord of all;
Gal 4:2 but is under guardians and stewards until the day appointed of the father.
Gal 4:3 So we also, when we were children, were held in bondage under the rudiments of the world:
Gal 4:4 but when the fulness of the time came, God sent forth his Son, born of a woman, born under the law,
Gal 4:5 that he might redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
Gal 4:6 And because ye are sons, God sent forth the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
Gal 4:7 So that thou art no longer a bondservant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir through God.
Gal 4:8 Howbeit at that time, not knowing God, ye were in bondage to them that by nature are no gods:
Gal 4:9 but now that ye have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how turn ye back again to the weak and beggarly rudiments, whereunto ye desire to be in bondage over again?
Gal 4:10 Ye observe days, and months, and seasons, and years.
Gal 4:11 I am afraid of you, lest by any means I have bestowed labor upon you in vain.

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#22 User is offline   Shekel 

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Posted 09 February 2006 - 06:03 PM

By the way, I am not in a bad spirit about this, but when we teach others something that leads them away from the simplicity that is in Christ we need to speak up for the truth.

Where is there a single unambiguous New Testament reference to our necessity to keep the weekly Sabbath? Yet I have showed you verses to the contrary. We are under a new convenant --- the old has passed, the new creation is here. We await only heaven and earth to catch up; and the fact that we walk under this New covenant --- this new creation life --- testifies to all creation that the old is passing and the new is come.

The Church is a sign of hope to a weary creation that longs to be birthed into the newness that we are even now birthed into, which is the meaning of the Seventh day given before the fall of man. It was a promise of rest from before the fall of man, and that rest has come in Christ ---to those who are born-again--- and all creation will soon follow suit --- so let us keep in step with the new creation and not go back to the symble when we have the substance. :) :1dsz5h2: :)
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#23 User is offline   Shekel 

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Posted 09 February 2006 - 06:15 PM

And by the way, the numbers in the bible wholly testify to Christ as the New Sabbath rest. Even His name "Jesus" adds up to 888. But some have stopped short on the 777 as good as that is, and still others slip to 666.
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#24 Guest_jhamner_*

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Posted 09 February 2006 - 06:23 PM

So Shekel, what is your OT theology? Promise/Fulfillment? Just wondering really. :)

I am impressed to believe in the Promise/Plan on God. The New Testament is meerly volume II in the Promise/Plan of God. Like a climbing stair step, the plan and purpose of God is revealed slowly over the centuries. We have yet to see every letter be fulfilled so that we finally climb to the top floor.

Mr. David, I don't think God will judge me for worshiping on a Sunday. But, that is my conviction. If you feel led to keep the Sabbath (as in Saturday), by ALL MEANS!!!! :) You get your praise on.

I think the church is being awakened to Jewish traditions because God's eyes are moving back towards Jacob and off the Gentiles. For a long time, the church forgot what an important role Jews played, how their feasts and festivals and Sabbaths related to God's Promse/Plan. It is a wonderfully awesome thing to discover just how Hebrew culture and holidays mirror what God is doing. WOW.

:) I love to see all this scholarly discussion. You guys make me feel sophisticated. haha (By the way, I am NO theologian)

This post has been edited by jhamner: 09 February 2006 - 06:25 PM

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