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Sell Everything You Own, And Give The Money To The Poor early christians in ACTS met in house-churches Rate Topic: -----

#1 User is offline   dennis mann 

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Posted 19 February 2010 - 10:55 AM

Christ told us
sell everything you own, and give the money to the poor,

BUT!

the early christians in ACTS met in house-churches,,,,they fellowshipped, ate bread, worshipped from house to house,


my point is,
not all christians sold all their homes

i think,
if a christian was rich, with 10 homes (9 homes are rental units),
perhaps he should sell 9 homes, to help the poor,
and keep 1 home to live in

but we should give CHEERFULLY..............if we don't give CHEERFULLY,perhaps we shouldn't give at all

we must not be lukewarm, reluctant, half-hearted,

we should be DELIGHTED to be His disciple, possession, slave, follower, ambassador, preacher, witness, brother

anything less than DELIGHT is lukewarm

every new convert in the NT was over-joyed,

the mood of the believer is Joy,

ask God for Joy

Lord Jesus,
please fill us with Your Spirit,
amen
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#2 User is offline   rtkiii66 

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Posted 19 February 2010 - 12:08 PM

It is refereed to as landed property, I find it interesting, yesterday comments were made on this forum that socialism is rooted in evil. Yet when we look at the book of acts, the template to the structure of the church, we see those who have give to the elders so they could distribute to those who have not, so no one was in need. They taught out of the temple and and then communed in the houses. How come the early christians went to temple to learn and todays christians go to a "church"(one of thousands of denominations) or teach out of their homes. The example set by the apostles was to go to temple to learn.





Act 2:44 And all who believed (who adhered to and trusted in and relied on Jesus Christ) were united and [together] they had everything in common;

Act 2:45 And they sold their possessions (both their landed property and their movable goods) and distributed the price among all, according as any had need.

Act 2:46 And day after day they regularly assembled in the temple with united purpose, and in their homes they broke bread [including the Lord's Supper]. They partook of their food with gladness and simplicity and generous hearts,

Act 2:47 Constantly praising God and being in favor and goodwill with all the people; and the Lord kept adding [to their number] daily those who were being saved [from spiritual death].


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#3 User is offline   dennis mann 

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Posted 19 February 2010 - 01:00 PM

GOD FOREKNEW THAT THE SAINTS WOULD BE IN THE MINORITY,,,,WITH VERY LITTLE political, military, economic power/influence

and the world is too big and too wicked for the church to fix everything, and rescue everybody,

so, the church helps Christians FIRST,,,,,(AND PAGANS SECOND)

===

socialism is done by secular govt,
man-made laws force many to contribute to govt charities (like SS, Medicare) ,
and the secular govt gets the Glory and Thanks (God is often not thanked nor glorified),
and since the people don't want to pay for it,,,,,,the govt borrows the money (which destroys our nation, economy, and currency)


====

socialism is marxism/communism

it is "charity" with the govt's gun to my head.........that's not Christian Love and righteousness

===


notice that the early christians seldom did miracles to feed the hungry,,,,,,
they sold their property and gave the money

so,
if i go bankrupt today,,and need a Rescue,,,i'm not really expecting a MIRACLE-RESCUE from God/saints/church

God can do un-limited miracles,,,,,,,,but God wants to remain (sort-of) invisible,,,,so that we MUST live by faith (not by sight)


in the early church,,,,,,,,the Apostles did blatant physical miracles to validate their "new" religion, and validate their "new" Scriptures

2Co 12:12 Truly the signs of an apostle were wrought among you in all patience, in
signs, and wonders, and mighty deeds.


can i do signs, and wonders, and mighty deeds?..........if yes, then, i might be an apostle!

the a/c cometh soon,,,,,,with lying signs and wonders!
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#4 User is offline   RoseofSharon 

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Posted 19 February 2010 - 05:50 PM

THere is two major differences between what happened in Acts, and Socialism (many others I'm sure, but two majors)....

THe first is that in Socialism everything is held by the gov't nobody has any personal ownership rights, or say over what happens to their things. The gov't can take what it likes when it likes. It regulates what you can earn, when you can work, it regulates what you can say, and forces everybody to do everything the same.
In the new testament they were free to choose what they sold, they could take as much or as little of the prophets as they liked. Personal ownership rights were respected. Ananias and Saphira tried to lie to GOd that they had brought all when they had kept some back, and it was not the keeping it back that resulted in their deaths, but their lies. Peter infact told them straight - was it not yours to do what you liked with?! In other words It was not a forced selling of assets but a selling of assets that was based on genuine love and discipleship. The instruction Jesus gave to sell all that you have and give to the poor was also given to one young man that when you look at the rest of the story actually thought more of his wealth than he did following Christ.

The second major difference between Socialism and Acts is the spirit behind it. Socialism is the worlds answer to the Christian idea both on an enforced level, and also trying to take God out of the picture.
The Christians looked after the poor because they had a genuine love for them and wanted to make their lives better. Socialism however is just legalised stealing. There is no love in socialism, and usually if you look at socialistic countries the country is run into the ground so as the people can barely get enough to eat, yet the leaders in nearly every case are living in the lap of luxury.

To take the example of the wealthy man who has ten houses. In Christianity he is not forced to sell any of these ten houses. In fact he is quite at liberty to take those ten houses keep them, and yet give subsidised rent to the poor, and provide nine poor families with a roof over their heads. He is allowed to to keep rents high, and only have those who can afford his rents, or he is even at liberty to sell them, keep all, some or none of the money as he feels the Lord is convicting him. In Socialism on the other hand he may have ten houses, yet the state will say he has to move into the one that has x amount of bedrooms (according to how big his family is, only a one bed flat or studio if he is on his own), they will then take his other nine houses and put poor families into them. Those poor families may not even have to pay rent on those properties. If there are very big houses says of five or more bedrooms, the gov't may even put more than one family into that house. Depriving the rich man of both his rents, and his property rights. Socialism IS NOT what the early Christians practiced!!!!!
"ADONAI says, 'I am returning to Tziyon, and I will live in Yerushalayim. Then Yerushalayim will be called Truth City, ADONAI-Tzva'ot's Mountain, the Mountain of the Holy One. 4 ADONAI-Tzva'ot says, 'Old men and old women will once again sit in the open places of Yerushalayim, each one with his cane in his hand, because of their great age. 5 The city's open places will also be full of boys and girls playing there.' 6 ADONAI-Tzva'ot says, 'This may seem amazing to the survivors in those days, but must it also seem amazing to me?' says ADONAI-Tzva'ot. 7 ADONAI-Tzva'ot says, 'I will save my people from lands east and west; 8 I will bring them back, and they will live in Yerushalayim. They will be my people; and I will be their God, with faithfulness and justice.' 9 "ADONAI-Tzva'ot says, 'Take courage, you who are hearing only now, in these days, these words spoken by the prophets when the foundation was being laid for rebuilding the temple, the house of ADONAI-Tzva'ot". Zechariah 8:4-9

God is returning to Jerusalem to once again be among his people.



Sending forth the Message of Elijah to a dieing world.
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#5 User is offline   dennis mann 

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Posted 19 February 2010 - 06:07 PM

View PostRoseofSharon, on 19 February 2010 - 05:50 PM, said:

THere is two major differences between what happened in Acts, and Socialism (many others I'm sure, but two majors)....

THe first is that in Socialism everything is held by the gov't nobody has any personal ownership rights, or say over what happens to their things. The gov't can take what it likes when it likes. It regulates what you can earn, when you can work, it regulates what you can say, and forces everybody to do everything the same.
In the new testament they were free to choose what they sold, they could take as much or as little of the prophets as they liked. Personal ownership rights were respected. Ananias and Saphira tried to lie to GOd that they had brought all when they had kept some back, and it was not the keeping it back that resulted in their deaths, but their lies. Peter infact told them straight - was it not yours to do what you liked with?! In other words It was not a forced selling of assets but a selling of assets that was based on genuine love and discipleship. The instruction Jesus gave to sell all that you have and give to the poor was also given to one young man that when you look at the rest of the story actually thought more of his wealth than he did following Christ.

The second major difference between Socialism and Acts is the spirit behind it. Socialism is the worlds answer to the Christian idea both on an enforced level, and also trying to take God out of the picture.
The Christians looked after the poor because they had a genuine love for them and wanted to make their lives better. Socialism however is just legalised stealing. There is no love in socialism, and usually if you look at socialistic countries the country is run into the ground so as the people can barely get enough to eat, yet the leaders in nearly every case are living in the lap of luxury.

To take the example of the wealthy man who has ten houses. In Christianity he is not forced to sell any of these ten houses. In fact he is quite at liberty to take those ten houses keep them, and yet give subsidised rent to the poor, and provide nine poor families with a roof over their heads. He is allowed to to keep rents high, and only have those who can afford his rents, or he is even at liberty to sell them, keep all, some or none of the money as he feels the Lord is convicting him. In Socialism on the other hand he may have ten houses, yet the state will say he has to move into the one that has x amount of bedrooms (according to how big his family is, only a one bed flat or studio if he is on his own), they will then take his other nine houses and put poor families into them. Those poor families may not even have to pay rent on those properties. If there are very big houses says of five or more bedrooms, the gov't may even put more than one family into that house. Depriving the rich man of both his rents, and his property rights. Socialism IS NOT what the early Christians practiced!!!!!



amen!

socialism is satanic,
the Bible is heavenly! :) ;)
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www.omegamanradio.com
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#6 User is offline   Paul G 

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Posted 19 February 2010 - 06:18 PM

I've been concerned about that passage since I first read it. But perhaps that only applied to certain disciples Jesus was influencing at that time? And maybe we'll never know but more important perhaps is; if/how does that passage apply to us today and maybe the incident with Ananias and Sapphira gives us a clue? They sold "a possession" which one might conclude maybe the apostles were not demanding they "sell everything" but rather something Ananias and Sapphira possessed in excess of what they needed to live but God killed them anyway just for lying about how it was sold for? Which perhaps suggests and I tend to agree with your assumption that God probably does indeed want us to have only one home for our own use and that all excess mammon/money should be used to help the poor? But of course few of us do this and if Mark 10:21 & Luke 18:22 are indeed a command to all of us from Jesus, then I'm afraid many if not most of us in first world nations are being disobedient in this regard too and we're not just talkin' about people who own more than 1 home either? Wouldn't this include those who don't really need more than 1 car, a boat, plane, swimming pool, bling and everything else under the sun you can think of and oh yes, I'm coming to it. It; being root of all evil which is Money (1 Timothy 6:10). Ouch!

Just how much money is "enough"? And what about "savings"? Are we supposed to only look out for ourselves and not try to leave an inheritance to our children either? How would Jesus speak to this? Because doesn't our society advise and encourage its citizens to attain More mammon than we need and also to accumulate as much Money as we possibly can? And unless you're homeless, it's probably reasonable to presume that all of us can give more to help the poor than we do regardless whether you own property too or not? So why isn't God striking "us" dead? Oh Oh! Maybe we don't account for this behavior until after we're in the grave but by then, It's Too Late isn't it? Woulda, Coulda, Shoulda ain'ta gonna counta atta Judgment Day?

Speaking of "homeless", a topic which I'm constantly praying and writing about and also posted in this forum recently at: http://www.christian...=1&#entry364270 and suggesting an idea I thought of for how our churches could actually defeat homeless for the most part and that dialogue starts about Page 22 in the document. But yes I'm filled with anxiety about helping the poor and indeed I am afraid to admit I can give more too but I'm praying very hard on this topic too. Anyway, I'm no expert and may surely be the least of God's children but always open to edify with Christian brethren because there's always lots to learn and lots to discuss. Blessings.

Paul
in-his-name@shaw.ca


View Postdennis mann, on 19 February 2010 - 08:55 AM, said:

Christ told us
sell everything you own, and give the money to the poor,

BUT!

the early christians in ACTS met in house-churches,,,,they fellowshipped, ate bread, worshipped from house to house,


my point is,
not all christians sold all their homes

i think,
if a christian was rich, with 10 homes (9 homes are rental units),
perhaps he should sell 9 homes, to help the poor,
and keep 1 home to live in

but we should give CHEERFULLY..............if we don't give CHEERFULLY,perhaps we shouldn't give at all

we must not be lukewarm, reluctant, half-hearted,

we should be DELIGHTED to be His disciple, possession, slave, follower, ambassador, preacher, witness, brother

anything less than DELIGHT is lukewarm

every new convert in the NT was over-joyed,

the mood of the believer is Joy,

ask God for Joy

Lord Jesus,
please fill us with Your Spirit,
amen

Facing God's Truth
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