[shy1]

Shekel, on Sep 27 2005, 07:10 PM, said:

Thus, to the casual observer who focuses and fixates on one thing, he simply observes  the period of the reign of the beast, and to another the period of prophesying of the Two Witnesses. --- They might even argue with each other over which time frame is the correct one! --- But it will be both, and more!

The easiest marker to look for will be when the antichrist sits himself up in the temple. But there will be lesser events also working on 3.5-year grids interweaving with the rest!

Sorry to complicate matters!
As you can see from the above complexity that it would be a small matter for Jesus to "cut short" the age in such a way so as to leave all parties humbled who took sides as to when it would be! And yet He will keep us all on our toes, waiting breathlessly for His appearing, all the while forced to walk by faith one day at a time.

But when it happens, and it will indeed happen similarly as I have said, then all who read this now will know that I have spoken these things by the Lord God, and not from my own imagination. But if you disagree, that is all right. It matters not! Time will prove itself, and I love and respect all of you anyway!

God bless you one and all that love and long for the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ!

===========

For more see www.1260-1290-days-bible-prophecy.org/

I know it's been a while since this was posted, but it's taking me a while to work my way through this forum.

Shekel, you are a marvel. I have been thinking a LOT about the seven year time period and wanting the events laid out on a timeline, but I guess so many are going on at the same time and overlapping that they are really on their own timelines.

I quoted the above portion for the part about the antichrist in the temple being an easy marker to look for. I have a hard time keeping track of who is pre-trib and who is post-trib, but wouldn't the two witnesses be a fairly good marker to look for, for those of us who believe we will be here to look for them? I know there has been a whole separate topic on them, but that's something that I'd like to have a better grasp on as far as timing in relation to the Second Coming. I'd really love to see another whole discussion on that, in a separate topic. It's my understanding, though, that the antichrist in the temple and the start of their ministry are at about the same time, and then after three and a half years he's finally allowed to kill them, and the Second Coming is not long after they are resurrected and called up to heaven.

Sorry to get sidetracked--thanks again, Shekel, for all the loving work that you put into these things and then freely share them with us. I DO long for the return of my Lord and Savior, and it helps to see yet another post that reminds me that His coming is near, and probably nearer than we all think.

Debbie

[Shekel]

Quote

...I have been thinking a LOT about the seven year time period and wanting the events laid out on a timeline, but I guess so many are going on at the same time and overlapping that they are really on their own timelines.

Well said. This is exactly what I am saying.

As for the timing of the Two Witnesses and antichrist, it is possibly true what you said, and they are two things to look for (though I am not convinced if the two witnesses are literal or figurative --- my feeling is that it is both) ---- but as you yourself said, "but I guess so many (events) are going on at the same time and overlapping that they are really on their own timelines."

And so this may be the case with the Two Witnesses, and my guess is that they (antichrist and the witnesses) will be on two separate tracks of time, interweaving with each other into lesser biblical numeric patterns---and there are many examples of this in past history that can demonstrate this. One simple example that comes to mind is the 1290 of Daniel, which is 430 x 3 of Ezekiel, and the 1150 of Daniel 8, which is also 720 (360 x 2 "a times") + 430 = 1150, and/or 70 + 360 x 3. All these have clear parallels already existing in the history of Israel as years and as days. (See bible-numbers web site).

So I am saying that the lesser patterns are numbers like 70, 390, 430, 720 (390 of Ezek. 4 is 360 with a leap month, so that 1290 is simply 1260 also with a leap month, that is, with one of its 3.5 years as 390 days long) --- and the major time frames would be 1150, (2300) 1260, 1290, and 1335. Even the 490 works within itself as 490 + 770 = 1260, or, 483 + 777 = 1260 --- all these are biblical time frames (Dan. 9, and see Jesus statement about the 7 times, 77 times, or 70 x 7 times that we are to forgive --- ).

So, it is possible that say the two witnesses begin to witness 430 days before the antichrist sits himself up in the temple, so that 430 x 2 days more = 1290 days, and the two witnesses die, with 430 more days till antichrist dies and completes his 1290 days. (as for the difference between 1260 and 1290, the difference is that of 430 + 430 + 430 = 1290, or as 400 + 430 + 430 = 1260.

The two witnesses die after 1260 days, but it may well be 1290 in some way too!

But one does not have to look very far to see this exact pattern:

Israel goes into Egypt "400" years as said to Abraham, but it turned out to be an exact 430 years instead, (and 390 years to when Moses fled into Midian 40-years before the Exodus --- compare with Ezek. 4.). From the exodus to the fall of Jerusalem are another 430 x 2 years to 586 BC. Thus we have 1260 or 1290 years from the time Israel entered Egypt (1876 BC) to the time Israel (Judah) entered Egypt again along with Jeremiah the prophet (and into Babylon as well). And when the two witnesses die, what have we, a great earthquake and the city of Jerusalem falls. And at the end of the said 1260 or 1290 years from 1876 to 586 BC Jerusalem also falls. Etc., (The 1260 days is simple half of a seven-year period, which is fairly well excepted among prophecy scholars.)

And as for days intersecting years, well, Israel entered Egypt during the seven-year famine of Joseph (1878-1871 BC), and Ezekiel laid on his side 430 days to symbolically siege Jerusalem which fell --- you guessed it, exactly seven years later! (593 - 586 BC).

The 1150 from 1876 BC lands us during the time the northern kingdom of Israel went into exile (725 -721).

After 1335 years "blessed is he who waits and reaches till 1335 days) --- is when Judah comes back up out of Babylonian captivity (539 to 536 BC.) These time frames are exact to the day, but those details are too vast to delve into now.

The point is that one can see from the past that our future will be both simple and complex numerically. ---And isn't that just like God!


And if that were not enough, the total siege times that Ezekiel symbolically besieged Jerusalem on behalf of Israel was 390 days, but the literal siege time for Jerusalem literally lasted 945 days (930 on the 360 calendar). (945 + 390 = 1335). This means that there was 1260 days from the end of the symbolic siege of Ezekiel to the start of the literal one. And 2300 days till the arrival of the first refugee as detailed in the book of Ezekiel. And thus, Jerusalem symbolically fell at the end of Ezekiel laying on His side. And then Ezekiel rose up from laying down as if dead, unable to move from side to side, when the city fell -- at least symbolically (for he rose up at the end of the symbolic siege.) Thus, Ezekiel was a type of the two witnesses, once for Judah and once for Israel, and then the city fell, the same pattern as in Rev. 12, and the 3.5 days is precise since the week that Ezekiel sat astonished at the vision of God on His chariot (chapter 1-2) is seven years to when the city fell, the night of Tammuz 9, 586 BC, and thus 3.5 days forward and back ward yields Tammuz 5-12, which is the anniversary that Ezekiel had his vision of the chariot of God, as said, which was seven-years earlier (593 BC). So we have a literal 1290 + 1260 + 3.5 days! from when Ezekiel received his priestly call at age 30 (and was told to symbolically besiege Jerusalem) until the fulfillment of the symbolic siege of Jerusalem by the literal fall of Jerusalem! (With the week of Ezekiel's call, in turn, symbolizing seven years, 'a day for each year', in agreement with what God said to Ezekiel, "Lay on your side 390 + 40 days, "A Day for each year of the sins of Israel (and Judah)."

God is soooooooooo awesome!

And the very days are all important and have significance on their own and interweave with this whole outline. And this whole complex web of numbers repeat themselves again as in a mirror back unto itself, and so forth and so on.

So, if the past was complex, so with the future be! We do no one a favor by oversimplification. We see the 1260 and 1335, yes, but people should be aware of a vast underlying complexity that may through a wrench into many end-time theories.

Better to just enjoy the ride and say, "That's my God talking!" "He has it all under control!" "Go ahead, kill the body, but you cannot touch my soul!"

I could go on forever, literally, on just this one pattern. But I know I have your head spinning so I will cease!
And to think that all this numeric dove-tales into the bible codes using the same numeric sequences so that one picture bible code overlaps another telling His story line upon line!
Wow!

==============
For an actual example of the above scenarios that happened exactly (to the hour) one week after this was written, click here!
www.christian-forum.net/18956
======================
Update: The 483 and 490-day pattern came together exactly and perfectly with the Alpha and Beta named storms. See www.bible-codes.org/forum-alpha-beta-hurricanes-bible-code.htm
================

Also see http://www.bible-cod...-bible-code.htm

Also see this other article about the complexity of the "time, times, and half a time." That article was posted Sept. 27, 2005.

[Shekel]

And I left out the best parts!

Like math, it gets more interesting as it goes, (unless you don't like math!)

He is the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end! Which is which was and is to come!

Glory to God!

Come quickly Lord Jesus, and consume your enemies by the brightness of your coming and by your awesome splendor!

[Godisgood]

Greetings all:

I want to share an waking vision that I just received this morning. I saw a bunch of jigsjaw-like pieces being pieced together around a circle. It was like an circle within a circle, sort of like those wheel within a wheel that Shekel had in his posts. These jigsjaw-like pieces comes in various sizes and shapes, from huge to very small pieces. All came together to form as one body of the circle, encircling the smaller singular circle. I realize that the jigsjaw-like pieces, from the huge ones to very small pieces, are the Christians using their various spiritual gifts working together as one to the Glory of the Lord, the small inner circle. I have to thank Shekel for inspiring, more or less, to the vision that I had received, so thank you first to the Lord for the vision and thank you, Shekel.

Sincerely yours,

Wendy

[Miki]

Shekel, on Sep 28 2005, 01:10 AM, said:

Sail2awe, on Sep 22 2005, 02:43 PM, said:

This is truly remarkable. I haven't read this forum yet, but certainly shall.

What do you think about the Lord's words regarding for the sake...time will be cut short?

I had been thinking this was speaking to the 5 months of Satan's arrival defacto at the 6th trumpet, but not decisively so.

I've got some reading to do. Thank you for this bb, I am privileged to be here.

Allow me to say something quite controversial in response to your question:

For that time to be "cut short" implies the cutting short of a seven-year period in half, such as the famine was in the days of Elijah. (See James 5; Dan. 9, 12; Rev. 11-13, etc.)

I believe that the return of Christ will be arranged in such a numeric fashion that the post, pre, and mid tribulationalists (and probably pre-wrath too!) will all turn out to be correct; It will simply be a matter of perspective.

I do believe I speak this by the Holy Ghost, as I am confident that this is what He has shown me after about 20,000 hours of diligent study in bible numeric with the hand of God heavily upon me.

I have seen this pattern again and again played out in actual world events as a sign to me so that I do not miss His point.

As a simply analogy, take the seven years of blessing of Joseph followed by the seven years of famine:

Two seven-year periods side by side. Let us divided them in half. Do you notice that this creates a third seven-year period in the middle of the two sevens? If the rapture occurred at the beginning of the famine, one could say that it was the end of the seven-years of famine, or one could say that it was in the middle of the central (third) seven-years.

And just to make things more complicated, the children of Israel actually entered Egypt "two" years into the second seven years of the famine! Recall the "time, times, and half-a-time" of Daniel and Revelation. (I.e.., "One year, two years, and half-a-year.")

And why the strange order? Why not for consistency sake have "Half-a-year, one-year, and two years"? Would this not be the natural sequence of numbers? Is it not a clue to look a little closer at things?

I believe that the internal structure of that final seven-year period of trial destined to come upon this earth will be extremely simple at first sight, but very complex upon closer examination.

"A Wheel within a 'Wheel!"

Let us take, {"1 year" "2 years" "half-a-year"} = 3.5 years plus the rest of the 3.5 years that completes seven years.

{"1 year" "2 years" "half-a-year"} {"1 year" "2 years" "half-a-year"}

(And we can double all this if we add a second seven-year period such as was in the days of Joseph's famine, and in the days of his father Jacob when he worked 7 + 7 years for two wives at the age of 77.)

Notice how that there are two internal three-and-a-half year periods within these two sets:


{1 year" "2 years" "half-a-year"} {1 year" "2 years" "half-a-year"}


{1 year" "2 years" "half-a-year"} {1 year" "2 years" "half-a-year"}

Now don't you think this won't cause some confusion during the tribulation period --- it will! Moreover, what if there is another seven-years entering into the millennium itself? A time of cleansing of the land. (Ezekiel 38-39?)

And often in the bible a seven-year period is elongated into 7.5 years, such as with the temple of Solomon. (I believe the age will last about 7500 years, for this reason: to complete the last night, since "the evening and the morning were the first day.")

Thus, I believe that there will be three major seven-year periods running during the tribulation period, with one of them overlapping in the middle. And there will be four more (2 and 2) because of the "time, times, and half-a-time" effect --- a total of seven seven-year periods over a 14 or 15 year period!

And beyond this complexity there will be three calendars in use, the Jewish calendar, the solar calendar (Gregorian), and the 360 calendar of the prophets. And each of these will have its own several variations!

So then, to the casual observer there will be a simple seven-year period! But the trained eye will observe seven-times seven years in overlap over a 15 year period. Each of these sevens will have its own story to tell. Perhaps one will entail the time of the reign of the city Babylon --- religious, political, and commercial, and another of the length of the beasts reign, and another concerning the period of the Two-Witnesses; another of the women in the desert; another of the time that no man can buy nor sell, ---perhaps each commencing upon some sort of judgment as seen in the book of Revelation. These are just possible examples off the top of my head.

Thus, to the casual observer who focuses and fixates on one thing, he simply observes the period of the reign of the beast, and to another the period of prophesying of the Two Witnesses. --- They might even argue with each other over which time frame is the correct one! --- But it will be both, and more!

The easiest marker to look for will be when the antichrist sits himself up in the temple. But there will be lesser events also working on 3.5-year grids interweaving with the rest!

Sorry to complicate matters!
As you can see from the above complexity that it would be a small matter for Jesus to "cut short" the age in such a way so as to leave all parties humbled who took sides as to when it would be! And yet He will keep us all on our toes, waiting breathlessly for His appearing, all the while forced to walk by faith one day at a time.

But when it happens, and it will indeed happen similarly as I have said, then all who read this now will know that I have spoken these things by the Lord God, and not from my own imagination. But if you disagree, that is all right. It matters not! Time will prove itself, and I love and respect all of you anyway!

God bless you one and all that love and long for the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ!

===========

For more see www.1260-1290-days-bible-prophecy.org/

Click here for a related post on this bible numeric.

Shekel talks about this idea again from an email sent him wondering about the rapture and it's timing and he responds again in similar:

Quote

I personally am convinced that the Lord has made this point unclear so that we are kept in a state of readiness rather than debate. I also believe that when the event occurs that it will be timed in such a way that all three will be correct depending on ones perspective. This is because there will be overlapping seven-year periods so that what is the beginning of one seven will be the end or middle of another. Note that the seven-years takes its cue from the "seventy-sevens" of Daniel 9. Hence, there is a seven before the seventieth. Moreover, it can be shown that they are each divided up in half as well. Also note the two seven-year periods of Joseph's plenty/famine years.


Interestingly, from the famine when Israel went into Egypt unto the fall of Judah and Jerusalem (586 BC) when they went back into Exile are 1290 years (if that were in days, this would be a 3.5-year period --- i.e., half-seven). And plus another 1290 + 1290 years takes us into the present. Thus, when we look at the ages there is a sense in which we are at the beginning, middle, or end of a seven-year span. I discuss this more fully in my numbers website.

http://www.1260-1290...y.org/index.htm
Also see, How the 1260 days can be overlapped with other 1260-day periods (on forum)

God bless!

Dean

I keep thinking about this because Joseph is such a type and l've never understood why the two seven year periods. But...If you inject the 7 year period between the two seven year periods as suggested above there is something interesting l noticed. Here it is ....
----------------------------------------------------------------------

The day of the Lord?

Begins at midnight. Darkness and then it gradually gets light and then darkness again. Three distinct periods...



1.) Darkness (Midnight) ---- An evil act upon the earth.


2.) light (filtered daylight) ----- The rise of the antichrist.


3.) Darkness (Midnight) ------- exposing and wrath




------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------


Of course we know what happens then...

Let his name be praise forever...

Just my thoughts. I'm not trying to sell. Just thinking out loud.

This post has been edited by Miki: 24 December 2006 - 09:57 AM

[Miki]

Shekel, on Sep 28 2005, 01:10 AM, said:

Sail2awe, on Sep 22 2005, 02:43 PM, said:

This is truly remarkable. I haven't read this forum yet, but certainly shall.

What do you think about the Lord's words regarding for the sake...time will be cut short?

I had been thinking this was speaking to the 5 months of Satan's arrival defacto at the 6th trumpet, but not decisively so.

I've got some reading to do. Thank you for this bb, I am privileged to be here.

Allow me to say something quite controversial in response to your question:

For that time to be "cut short" implies the cutting short of a seven-year period in half, such as the famine was in the days of Elijah. (See James 5; Dan. 9, 12; Rev. 11-13, etc.)

I believe that the return of Christ will be arranged in such a numeric fashion that the post, pre, and mid tribulationalists (and probably pre-wrath too!) will all turn out to be correct; It will simply be a matter of perspective.

I do believe I speak this by the Holy Ghost, as I am confident that this is what He has shown me after about 20,000 hours of diligent study in bible numeric with the hand of God heavily upon me.

I have seen this pattern again and again played out in actual world events as a sign to me so that I do not miss His point.

As a simply analogy, take the seven years of blessing of Joseph followed by the seven years of famine:

Two seven-year periods side by side. Let us divided them in half. Do you notice that this creates a third seven-year period in the middle of the two sevens? If the rapture occurred at the beginning of the famine, one could say that it was the end of the seven-years of famine, or one could say that it was in the middle of the central (third) seven-years.

And just to make things more complicated, the children of Israel actually entered Egypt "two" years into the second seven years of the famine! Recall the "time, times, and half-a-time" of Daniel and Revelation. (I.e.., "One year, two years, and half-a-year.")

And why the strange order? Why not for consistency sake have "Half-a-year, one-year, and two years"? Would this not be the natural sequence of numbers? Is it not a clue to look a little closer at things?

I believe that the internal structure of that final seven-year period of trial destined to come upon this earth will be extremely simple at first sight, but very complex upon closer examination.

"A Wheel within a 'Wheel!"

Let us take, {"1 year" "2 years" "half-a-year"} = 3.5 years plus the rest of the 3.5 years that completes seven years.

{"1 year" "2 years" "half-a-year"} {"1 year" "2 years" "half-a-year"}

(And we can double all this if we add a second seven-year period such as was in the days of Joseph's famine, and in the days of his father Jacob when he worked 7 + 7 years for two wives at the age of 77.)

Notice how that there are two internal three-and-a-half year periods within these two sets:


{1 year" "2 years" "half-a-year"} {1 year" "2 years" "half-a-year"}


{1 year" "2 years" "half-a-year"} {1 year" "2 years" "half-a-year"}

Now don't you think this won't cause some confusion during the tribulation period --- it will! Moreover, what if there is another seven-years entering into the millennium itself? A time of cleansing of the land. (Ezekiel 38-39?)

And often in the bible a seven-year period is elongated into 7.5 years, such as with the temple of Solomon. (I believe the age will last about 7500 years, for this reason: to complete the last night, since "the evening and the morning were the first day.")

Thus, I believe that there will be three major seven-year periods running during the tribulation period, with one of them overlapping in the middle. And there will be four more (2 and 2) because of the "time, times, and half-a-time" effect --- a total of seven seven-year periods over a 14 or 15 year period!

And beyond this complexity there will be three calendars in use, the Jewish calendar, the solar calendar (Gregorian), and the 360 calendar of the prophets. And each of these will have its own several variations!

So then, to the casual observer there will be a simple seven-year period! But the trained eye will observe seven-times seven years in overlap over a 15 year period. Each of these sevens will have its own story to tell. Perhaps one will entail the time of the reign of the city Babylon --- religious, political, and commercial, and another of the length of the beasts reign, and another concerning the period of the Two-Witnesses; another of the women in the desert; another of the time that no man can buy nor sell, ---perhaps each commencing upon some sort of judgment as seen in the book of Revelation. These are just possible examples off the top of my head.

Thus, to the casual observer who focuses and fixates on one thing, he simply observes the period of the reign of the beast, and to another the period of prophesying of the Two Witnesses. --- They might even argue with each other over which time frame is the correct one! --- But it will be both, and more!

The easiest marker to look for will be when the antichrist sits himself up in the temple. But there will be lesser events also working on 3.5-year grids interweaving with the rest!

Sorry to complicate matters!
As you can see from the above complexity that it would be a small matter for Jesus to "cut short" the age in such a way so as to leave all parties humbled who took sides as to when it would be! And yet He will keep us all on our toes, waiting breathlessly for His appearing, all the while forced to walk by faith one day at a time.

But when it happens, and it will indeed happen similarly as I have said, then all who read this now will know that I have spoken these things by the Lord God, and not from my own imagination. But if you disagree, that is all right. It matters not! Time will prove itself, and I love and respect all of you anyway!

God bless you one and all that love and long for the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ!

===========

For more see www.1260-1290-days-bible-prophecy.org/

Click here for a related post on this bible numeric.

What percentage of mankind will comprehend today? 1% maybe? If they believed that is. Not many have the mental capacity bolstered with an education both biblical and secular for recieving this.

I like it though. It wets our whiskers. It's my belief that God will open our understanding completely when we no longer have the same body. But now he displays it for the angels as well.

There's so much we don't know...how can we ever be anything but humble...And to be given a preview is both marvelous and frightening...

What responsibility we have to live a life like we know the truth..Not bogged down in self pity but strong and bold for the Lord and pressing forward against the forces of darkness in faith and the knowledge of the truth.

Marcus talked about hindsight in the Kjv code...and how people didn't really understand until they looked back on the OT... The Israelites where an embarrassment. Let's not repeat the folly by being in the same situation. A witness to a marvelous and amazing move of God. A revelation yet to be seen. Lets live a life of faith like we know and believe now..not from a podium in heaven where we have to sit red faced and view our folly.

Let's shake the world off our backs and walk a fresh today... in expectation of further revelation in relation to further obedience. Other wise we will be a fool for knowing and not doing and all the books will be laid open and the hypocritical life we live now will be seen by all. Nail your excuses to the cross. Confess once and for all that there is no excuse not to honor God with your life. And yes, l speak to myself as well. I believe God loves us and is showing his mercy as he did in the desert over and over again to the Israelites. Let's not let the opportunity of grace fly back in our face like it did with them. God was more than good and hindsight into your own life teaches you that very fact.

This post has been edited by Miki: 04 October 2007 - 07:13 AM