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The United States Babylon Debate Continues Rate Topic: -----

#1 User is offline   guysmith 

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Posted 20 April 2009 - 07:31 AM

I believe that the United States is, in part, Babylon described in Revelation 18. The debate seems almost endless, however, I would like to add another cog to the argument wheel.

Why do not Russia and China presently attempt to overtake the oilfields of the middle east? And the answer is; because the oilfields of the middle east are United States protected interest. Now, if the US were to be suddenly taken out of the picture, wouldn’t you think that China and Russia would be racing into the area in a land grab? With this in mind, isn’t the battle of Armageddon a description of Russia and China plus the rest of the world rushing into the middle east, into United States protected interest?

In Yehoshua,
Guy Smith
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#2 User is offline   gr82bsaved 

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Posted 20 April 2009 - 09:05 AM

Hi Guy,
Good observation and question. The former Soviet Union sponsored the 1967 Six Day war, as well as the 1973 Yom Kippur war. In both instances Soviet war planners convinced the Arabs that Israel could be defeated easily. The hidden agenda of the Soviets at the time was to defeat the Israelis, thus opening up a window of opportunity for the Soviets to sweep in and begin taking over the oil rich countries, including Saudi Arabia. However, President Lyndon Johnson threatened the Soviet Union with an escalation that would "not be in the continued interests" of either country. The Soviets were squealing that the Israeli's were kicking the Arabs behinds - in particular, the Egyptians - and the Arabs were demanding some type of action out of the Soviet Union to prevent losing face. That did not happen, as history bears out.

The same sort of thing happened in 1973 when Israel was attacked again. Only this time, Israel ended up with much more land, and pushed the Arabs back quite a distance (even though they were out numbered). Nixon, through Sec. of State Kissinger delivered a message to the Soviets that the US would protect Israel, and was prepared to ratchet up the ante. Again, the Soviet's backed down, and Israel prevailed.

The Soviets - now Russia - have always wanted to control the Middle East oil fields. That has been their goal since the 1950s. They spent billions of dollars supporting the Arab countries to stay on friendly terms with them, and are still doing so to this day. However, the Saudis don't trust the Russians, and neither do many other Arab state. Iran, Libya and Turkey do, however, and that is giving the Russians the foothold they so desperately want. In July of 1982, just one month after the Israeli's successfully bombed the Osirak nuclear reactor in Iraq and destroyed it, Israel reported finding two huge weapon caches in underground tunnels in Lebanon. Israeli PM Begin reported it to the world, but no one really took any notice. The arms cache was so huge, that it took months for the Israeli's to get it out of the tunnels. The cache was big enough to equip several divisions of soldiers (divisions have thousands of men, usaully around 12,000 or so). The weapons were sophisticated as well. These were not for the PLO to use, since they had no training to use the types of weapons found. This was a pre-positioning of arms for some type of invasion. There were enough weapons to over run Israel and push right into Egypt and Saudi Arabia. So the Russians have had their eye on the region for a long time.

The Chinese are a different story. They need oil and other resources, but they are also rich in dollars, unlike the Russians. They have a $1.7 Trillion cash reserve right now, and they are buying up metal resources like crazy at this time. In fact, they seem to be spending most of their money on copper and other industrial metals despite the down turn in their own economy. There will come a point when they will want their own oil fields to fuel their population's growing prosperity. When that happens, I could see them trying to do the same things the Russians are doing now. They have already begun securing oil resources from Venezuela, Brazil and Cuba. The ChiComs have been visiting the southern hemisphere of the Americas for the last three years. Money talks. They are also heavily invested in Africa at this time. They own and operate numerous mineral mines.

For more info, please read Joel Rosenberg's book, "Epicenter". The second edition is called "Version 2.0". It has a lot of historical facts regarding the Soviets/Russians and Arabs as well as the role the US has been playing in the region. It is fascinating reading all centered around Ezekiel 38 & 39.

One other thing if I may. Look at Jeremiah 49:34-39. Here is what it says:

Quote

Jer 49:34 The word of the Lord that came to Jeremiah the prophet against Elam, in the beginning of the reign of Zedekiah king of Judah, saying,
Jer 49:35 "Thus says the Lord of hosts: 'Behold, I will break the bow of Elam, The foremost of their might.
Jer 49:36 Against Elam I will bring the four winds From the four quarters of heaven, And scatter them toward all those winds; There shall be no nations where the outcasts of Elam will not go.
Jer 49:37 For I will cause Elam to be dismayed before their enemies And before those who seek their life. I will bring disaster upon them, My fierce anger,' says the Lord; 'And I will send the sword after them Until I have consumed them.
Jer 49:38 I will set My throne in Elam, And will destroy from there the king and the princes,' says the Lord.
Jer 49:39 'But it shall come to pass in the latter days: I will bring back the captives of Elam,' says the Lord."


The Iranian Christians of today believe that prophesy has to do with them. In 1979, during and after the Islamic Revolution, about 5 million Christian Iranians left Iran. They were scattered all over the world and still are. However, they believe that the fulfillment of Jer. 49:34-39 is about to come true. Foolish Iranian President Ahmadinejad has pushed Israel into a state of readiness. Israel is now saying they have plans to bomb the Iranian nuclear facilities, and have said without reservation they are willing to carry their plans out. Ahmadinejad has got to believe that, since the Israeli's did it successfully in 1982 against Iraq. In any case, Iranian Christians are looking at this as a possible fulfillment of Jer. 49:34-39, which says that GOD will bring HIS fierce anger against Elam (Persia, now Iran) and destroy out of it king and princes. Then HE goes on to say that "it shall come to pass in the latter days: I will bring back the captives of Elam." which the Iranian Christians believe means they will have the opportunity to return to their home country and the people of Iran will turn to CHRIST and stun the world in their conversion. I only pray that will happen!!! This could be a fulfillment about to unfold before our eyes.

Blessings upon you in the name of JESUS CHRIST THE LORD

gr82bsaved
JESUS CHRIST is the LORD, my SAVIOR, and my FRIEND.

Blessings in the NAME ABOVE ALL NAMES, JESUS CHRIST
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#3 User is offline   researcher 

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Posted 20 April 2009 - 10:28 AM

View Postguysmith, on Apr 20 2009, 05:31 AM, said:

I believe that the United States is, in part, Babylon described in Revelation 18. The debate seems almost endless, however, I would like to add another cog to the argument wheel.

Why do not Russia and China presently attempt to overtake the oilfields of the middle east? And the answer is; because the oilfields of the middle east are United States protected interest. Now, if the US were to be suddenly taken out of the picture, wouldn’t you think that China and Russia would be racing into the area in a land grab? With this in mind, isn’t the battle of Armageddon a description of Russia and China plus the rest of the world rushing into the middle east, into United States protected interest?

In Yehoshua,
Guy Smith


Rev 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets and of saints, and of all that have been slain upon the earth.

Luk 11:49 Therefore also said the wisdom of God, I will send unto them prophets and apostles; and some of them they shall kill and persecute;
Luk 11:50 that the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation;

Mat 23:35 that upon you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of Abel the righteous unto the blood of Zachariah son of Barachiah, whom ye slew between the sanctuary and the altar.

Mat 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, that killeth the prophets,

Luk 16:16 The law and the prophets were until John:

This post has been edited by researcher: 20 April 2009 - 10:29 AM

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#4 User is offline   Shekel 

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Post icon  Posted 20 April 2009 - 11:57 AM

Good read Todd. I have heard of that book before and I agree with your thoughts.

However, I still believe that the United States is in part, "Mystery Babylon" politically speaking. I believe that "Babylon" in the book of Revelation refers to different things, such as religious, political, economic, and historical centers. This is why there are so many interpretations of Babylon of Revelation 13, it is because God intends many applications.

I believe that the Lord identified several of these “"Babylons"” using a series of huge blackouts that occurred in 2003 in Rome, United States, Iraq, London, and San Francisco, the "Gay Mecca" of the world. At the time the Lord was having me watch for these blackouts and when they occurred. The United States was the most spectacular. It even reached up to where I lived here in Canada. It occurred moments after I finished a transaction with a large Christian website to advertize on their mega site --- the first and last time I did this sort of thing. I purchased three months of banner impressions of the image of the hand encoded in Daniel 5, “"The Writing of the Wall"”. In the bible, the hand appeared writing on the wall by the light of the menorah in Babylon, which was stolen from Jerusalem. The picture bible code speaks about the lamp and its symbolic significance.

Anyway, to make a long story short, I believe God began to show me types of “Babylon” as these blackouts began to occur, starting with the one in America that occurred along the Eastern seaboard, including New York city, all the way up to where I live in Canada that lasted up to three days. “Three days of darkness!”

This, of course, is not conclusive evidence of who or what is Babylon, and is rather subjective, but I am sure on a personal level of what God was signaling to me at the time, and what I was in turn telling others as it unfolded using my websites at that time.

And just now, I kid you not, my eyes fall to Jer. 50:2 “"Announce and proclaim among the nations, lift up a banner and proclaim it; keep nothing back, but say: Babylon will be captured; Bel will be put to shame…”". My bible was open to it because your passage from Jer. 49 about Elam, which I was reading, is right before that. This verse along with one in Isaiah (13:2), were the verses that God gave me encouraging me to literally “publish the banner” of the waving hand that spoke of the fall of Babylon on that huge Christian site, and also to continue to put out the images of the Banner Bible Code itself, a banner with three coins on it, “Mene” “Tekel” and “Parsin”.

Hmm!

That same picture bible code speaks about Iran, too, as next on the list of places to be judged, ending with China. (“Parsin” can also read “Persia”, that is Iran.)

The first is the image that I paid to have put out as a banner advertisement just minutes before the blackout occured and then out went the power on my computer that I was using at the time to complete the transaction. I had just completed it. I took it as a sign. It was the largest blackout on record up to that time.

http://en.wikipedia....merica_blackout

Posted Image

Posted Image


The second and third links below are about the blackouts specifically.

http://www.bible-cod...ylon-Saddam.htm

http://www.bible-cod...e-Saddam-5-.htm

http://www.bible-cod...ies-lamp-5b.htm

I remember reading how that the number "nine" appeared often in the blackout. It took nine seconds involving nine generators, etc. It reminded me of the ninth plague on Egypt:

Posted Image

Exo 10:21 "And Jehovah said to Moses, Stretch out thy hand toward the heavens, that there may be darkness in the land of Egypt--so that one may feel darkness. And Moses stretched out his hand toward the heavens; and there was a thick darkness throughout the land of Egypt three days:"

I do not say that I caused the blackout, but only that God timed my banner add to coincide with His planned blackout so that I would be strong to do the work that He gave me to do at the time.

Also, there were 1290 days inclusive from Feb. 4, 2000 when the mene-tekel banner code first began to unravel unto Aug. 16, 2003 when the blackout ended. The three days of the blackout is also reckoned inclusively. 45 days later was the great Rome blackout, or 1335 days from code, (or, 666 + 666 days, etc.). 1290 days and 1335 days is the time frame mentioned in the last verses of the book of Daniel. http://1260-1290-day...e-prophecy.org/
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#5 User is offline   gr82bsaved 

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Posted 20 April 2009 - 02:27 PM

Hi Dean,
I totally agree that the US - in fact, many nations - is a part of Mystery Babylon. I do not agree with those that say that Babylon, the great city, is New York City. My disagreement is not because it is in the US, nor do I have a particular love for NYC. I think it somewhere else, and that it is yet to come. Perhaps it will be the rebirth of the city of Babylon itself in the very near future?

As far as the blackouts that occurred, I will go along with you about that being a sign that GOD has used to indicate the parts of the world that are involved in MB. No one else has ever made that distinction before you did, and I think it is a proper one. I have thought that the real Mystery Babylon is a world system that includes many cities and nations. I recall Nimrod (in Gen. 10), who built many cities but seemed to prefer Babel/Babylon over them all. Take a look at Gen. 10:

Quote

The first centers of his kingdom were Babylon, Erech, Akkad and Calneh, in Shinar. From that land he went to Assyria, where he built Ninevah, Rehoboth Ir, Calah and Resen, which is between Ninevah and Cala; that is, the great city. (Gen 10:10-12)


Satan, I imagine, influenced Nimrod to do that. To establish several seats of authority from which he could project his power; places to plan and wage wars like is done today. Mystery Babylon would be no different in my mind as a world system with several seats of power, but with one "preferred" city, the capitol city of Babylon.

I have been praying for the day that the people of Iran, the Palestinians, the Jordanians, the Syrians, the Egyptians, the Iraqis, the Turks and all other citizens of Muslim countries will turn to CHRIST and abandon Islam. A Christian Revolution in Iran - who would expect that? Seeing Iran come to CHRIST as a whole nation would compel, in my mind, Iraq to do the same and usher in a period of blessing for that entire region. That event could usher in the rebuilding of the Temple. Again, this is speculation and projections based on a limited analysis (my own) and my own prayers and hopes.

I believe we are about to see a wide variety of events that we never thought possible. Things that we thought were so impossible that no one gives a single minute of contemplation to them. Praise be our loving, mighty, and forgiving GOD WHO is able to do above and beyond anything we can imagine!

Thanks, and BLESSINGS to you in the name of our LORD JESUS CHRIST

gr82bsaved
JESUS CHRIST is the LORD, my SAVIOR, and my FRIEND.

Blessings in the NAME ABOVE ALL NAMES, JESUS CHRIST
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#6 User is offline   dennis mann 

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Posted 20 April 2009 - 06:59 PM

the pope got a PASSOVER EARTHQUAKE in Italy.........April 6, 2009

and the pope will get another earthquake on the SECOND PASSOVER in Jerusalem?

will the pope take this as a SIGN?..........or deceive the world by CLAIMING that it's a SIGN?

and move his throne to the CITY OF DAVID?,,,,,,,,,,where God put His Name?..........

the pope claims to be the NAME OF GOD..........HOLY FATHER.........JOHN 17

the a/c will be a Roman...........(of the Roman Church and Kingdom)..........Dan 2

the pope knows that Christ's SECOND COMING will be at Jerusalem...........so the pope will sit and wait for Him, at Jerusalem.

the beast of satan thinks that it can destroy the Lamb of God

daniel 9;25...........the temple is re-built before christ
verse 26........the other prince who shall come = the pope
the people of that prince is the Romans,,,,,,,,and the romans destroyed the city and temple in 70AD

verse 27.......the prince (pope) shall enter into a strong covenant with the many for 7 years

after the May 11 earthquake,
on the Temple Mount,,,,,,,,,the pope will build 3 Temples.........
1. the ENDTIMES JEWISH TEMPLE
2. an RCC temple
3. a Muslim Temple

is this right?
www.bible-codes.org
www.demonbusters.com
www.omegamanradio.com
www.theelijahchallenge.org
win worley
bill schnoebelen
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