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How To Be Born-again? Are you born-again? Rate Topic: -----

#13 User is offline   apostolic-church 

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Posted 24 September 2006 - 06:08 PM

simple answer is that the early church and all the writings of the earliest fathers ALL, unanimously attest to the requirement of being baptised to enter the new covenant, just as to bve circumcised was to enter the Abrahamic covenant.....

Of course, we can go into a very deep study of nuances lost in understanding things from the old to the new but without the deepest nuances, the simplicity is this.... You must be baptised... it is your saying yes when Adam said no....

However, the deeper question becomes about salvation... some say it is by faith alone, the bible NOWHERE says faith alone, in fact, baptism is a requirement too. So is your act of repentance, so is love working thru faith, so is grace, can you be saved wihout grace? is grace faith? of course not.. But the protestant position of sola fede is not biblical.. A whole number of things come together but it starts with God's grace entering a dark soul which considers wehre it's at, (like the prodigal son... irresistable tulips of calvinism is heresy), and seeing this light and knowing your require God and accept his plan of salvation. Chrsit said if you love ye, you would take up your cross and follow me. WHERE? to death.. the cross you bear is taken up AFTER they arrest you, they spit on you, they scourge you, this cross we must take up each day occurs after they tear our your beard, humiliated.. AFTER all this, Chrsit did what? ONLY then, he willfully took up his cross and walked toward the mount of God and offered Himself as sacrifice... Only then is the path unto the mount of god opened to you. You must follow in Christ's path, as he commands us to.. NArrow is the way, few find it...

Our baptisn is the entering into this life... it is the beginning of fredom from the world and all that is against God... Therein, the real work of sancrtification begins whereby we are recreated, moldided into the image of His very Son....

it is discipleship and what does a disciple do? HE does, mimicks his master.... HE becomes a carbon copy of his master....







View PostJ. Baker, on Sep 23 2006, 03:09 AM, said:

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Joh 3:5 "I am telling you the truth," replied Jesus, "that no one can enter the Kingdom of God without being born of water and the Spirit.


Can some one explain what it means by water? Some say you need baptized and some don't.



I gave the basic response to this....

However, there is another , more mystical understanding of this too... It has to do with the upper and lower waters, it has to do with your two births.. You are born of water when water gushes forth from your mothers womb and you are born. In like manner, you must also be born of the spirit, in the kingdom of God which resides in the upper waters (again, the mystical understanding of genesis 1). All tha is bablyon, is found in the lower waters, this seperation, this firmament that seperates them mystically is the great gulf seen in the parable of lasarus and the rich man....

But i wantt o keep it simple here for now. However, the verse you gave is specific to being bornof WATER of baptism and the descent of the holy spirit upon you, as we see this same pattern established with Chrsit at his baptism in the Jordan....

the other mystical concepts are related to the two births, physical and spiritual but wanted to offer this up also
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#14 User is offline   apostolic-church 

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Posted 25 September 2006 - 01:20 PM

One receives: salvation .... justification ... new birth ... eternal life....
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By believing in Christ (Jn 3:16; Acts 16:31)?



By repentance (Acts 2:38; 2 Pet 3:9)?



By baptism (Jn 3:5; Acts 2:38; 22:16; 1 Pet 3:21; Titus 3:5)?



By the work of the Spirit (Jn 3:5; 2 Cor 3:6)?



By declaring with our mouths (Lu 12:8; Rom 10:9)?



By coming to a knowledge of the Truth (1 Tim 2:4; Heb 10:26)?



By works (Rom 2:6, 7; James 2:21, 24-25)?



By grace (Acts 15:11; Eph 2:8)?



By his blood (Rom 5:9; Heb 9:22)?



By His righteousness (Rom 5:17; 2 Pet 1:1)?



By His cross (Eph 2:16; Col 2:14)?


I just gave you 11 different things are are told in the bible that are RESPONSIBLE for your receiving salvation... isn't it amazing, if we bother to look at the entire of the scripture, not just part of it and rather than color things in one way and then make excuses, we look at what the bible actualy says and then just accept it?

The apostolic teaching with the above 11 points above is the understanding which is ALSO how the early church fathers tauht, wrote about and how a true catholic understands salvation. WE will get into it more because we do not believe as many teach, that we are saved by or personal works, (as if man can ever be good enough) HOWEVE, what the protestant's attitude about what we believe is twisted and misunderstands the true teachings, early fathers or catholic, (whetehr east or west) We believe that our works are only a product of the grace received by God, the faith we have in being obedient, etc.... Since salvation requires all the above things, which one are we going to remove and yet, say the definition of salvation is complete. Will we remove faith? or how about grace? Some have removed baptism as not essential, yet the bible speaks of it's being essential. How about faith working thru love?

When we wear white linen rainments or garments, (as we see in the book of Revelation) what are they? The white linen garments is in fact, the "righteousness of the saints" !!! READ that again cuz I know 99% of you all missed that verse in Revelation. Go and read JAmes also for this is also what is credited to Abraham....

This is what early church fathers taught, (fathers of the church that came 1500 years before the reformation fathers).

Thought to offer up the above list. Read each one if you have a chance, look up all the passages. Find me one inspitred passage that doesn't belong, one which you can do without.... :) WE find that all are required.. yes, one comes after another. WE are given teh grace, grace brings faith which brings works by repenting and getting baptised, by taking up our cross. All these things are counted for us as righteousness. EVen the idea of justification is taught wrong in protestant circles, as if it is a one time event.. WE find the bible gives examples that are tot he contrary, 9and totally contrary to CAlvinism).... Justification is not a one time event but rather, it is a continual stream of events, WE find tons of passages that point to the abraham's justification at various times in his life, as much as 30 or more years apart. If the protestant understanding of justification is true, then Abraham would not have to be re-justified at a later time....

I know I just walked into the hornets nest wtih this all.

God Bless

Apostolic-Church
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#15 User is offline   Bananna 

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Posted 20 November 2006 - 03:20 AM

Great,
If I ever get aproval I may post my story...

Ofcourse I don't quite see those words born again the same anymore. :)

I have to get dunked in the icy stream once a month and let me tell you... it sure puts a twist on that

Born Again idiom.

Blessings
bananna
Anna, married 24yrs, children 13
If your family is Messianic and courtship minded check out our resources here
messianic matchmaker group
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#16 User is offline   Grego 

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Posted 16 September 2007 - 09:34 AM

How is it that people have such a diverse idea of what Born again is and isn`t and the yet the fact remains that the consequences of not being born again is really really bad?

Really bad consequences!
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#17 User is offline   Jake 

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Posted 22 November 2007 - 06:05 AM

Is it? I'm not "born again" myself, since I was born and raised a Christian - I've been a Presbyterian all my life, I think it's an arminian concept?

I can't remember when I accepted Christ, I just always have.
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Posted 23 May 2008 - 11:26 PM

View PostShekel, on Oct 11 2005, 07:59 PM, said:

How to be Born-again?

Greetings!

There is no greater question to ask than that which you have asked. It was asked by a great leader of Jesus long ago:

John 3:1 There was a Jewish leader named Nicodemus, who belonged to the party of the Pharisees.

Joh 3:2 One night he went to Jesus and said to him, "Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher sent by God. No one could perform the miracles you are doing unless God were with him."

John 3:3 Jesus answered, "I am telling you the truth: no one can see the Kingdom of God without being born again."

John 3:4 "How can a grown man be born again?" Nicodemus asked. "He certainly cannot enter his mother's womb and be born a second time!"

Joh 3:5 "I am telling you the truth," replied Jesus, "that no one can enter the Kingdom of God without being born of water and the Spirit.

Joh 3:6 A person is born physically of human parents, but is born spiritually of the Spirit.

Joh 3:7 Do not be surprised because I tell you that you must all be born again.

Joh 3:8 The wind blows wherever it wishes; you hear the sound it makes, but you do not know where it comes from or where it is going. It is like that with everyone who is born of the Spirit."

Joh 3:9 "How can this be?" asked Nicodemus.

Joh 3:10 Jesus answered, "You are a great teacher in Israel, and you don't know this?

Joh 3:11 I am telling you the truth: we speak of what we know and report what we have seen, yet none of you is willing to accept our message.

Joh 3:12 You do not believe me when I tell you about the things of this world; how will you ever believe me, then, when I tell you about the things of heaven?

Joh 3:13 And no one has ever gone up to heaven except the Son of Man, who came down from heaven."

Joh 3:14 As Moses lifted up the bronze snake on a pole in the desert, in the same way the Son of Man must be lifted up,

Joh 3:15 so that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.

Joh 3:16 For God loved the world so much that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not die but have eternal life.

Joh 3:17 For God did not send his Son into the world to be its judge, but to be its savior.

Joh 3:18 Those who believe in the Son are not judged; but those who do not believe have already been judged, because they have not believed in God's only Son.

Joh 3:19 This is how the judgment works: the light has come into the world, but people love the darkness rather than the light, because their deeds are evil.

Joh 3:20 Those who do evil things hate the light and will not come to the light, because they do not want their evil deeds to be shown up.

Joh 3:21 But those who do what is true come to the light in order that the light may show that what they did was in obedience to God.

So what is Jesus saying?

He is saying that you must have a spiritual birth to enter heaven.

How do you do this?

By looking to Jesus like the Israelites did in the wilderness when they gazed upon the serpent upon the pole and were healed of their snake bites.

All have sinned and come short of the glory of God. We all have been bitten by the serpent, so to speak, just as Adam and Eve were in the sense that they listened to his lies and spiritual died. Later they physically died too. For God had warned that, "In the day that ye eat thereof you shall surely die!"

And so we see this symbolic picture before us of a snake upon a pole in the wilderness.

Jesus said that He Himself is like that snake on the pole!

What pole?

Jesus was referring to the cross. Jesus would die upon a cross as if He were accursed like that snake.

Why did He die?

He died in our place. He took the venom of the snake upon Himself when He died on that cross! He died in our place, the spotless lamb of God!

What must we do to be cured of our snake bite? That is,

What must we do to be cured of our sins with its penalty of death?

Jesus has done it all for you already! All that remains for you to do is to look upon Jesus by faith for your cure just as the ancient Israelites looked upon that snake to be cured of their snake bites!

Whoever looked up at that bronze snake upon the pole in the days of Moses were healed. All that did not look because of their unbelief and disobedience perished.

It is the same way today between us and Jesus!

All that look to Him in faith and believe that He died for your on that cross will be saved --- healed of their sin and the curse of sin.

Whoever is healed and saved from their sins by believing this message is also born-again. For salvation by faith in Jesus, (apart from works), is how one becomes born-again. They are forgiven, and the Holy Spirit of God comes and changes them from the inside out. They are born-again, though outwardly they appear the same, yet inwardly a new sense of cleanness and joy takes over. That person has been born-again!

Whoever is born-again loves Jesus, and whoever loves Him follows Him!

This is how to be born-again!

And he that is born-again is passed from death to life. He will live forever.


John 3:3 "Jesus answered and said unto him, "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

This is a very interesting statement, and in most King James Bibles the margin reads "again" as being "from above". In Strong's Greek dictionary, # 509, the word is "Anothen", "from above". You will never understand this statement that Jesus made unless you understand what it means to be "born from above." In a later verse, it is documented that you must be "born from above", or your soul will be lost for eternity. So you see its vital for you to come through a woman unless God has chosen you not to, beings like Michael and Gabriel....

The church world has their sayings and songs that "Ye must be born again", and yet these verses they sin miss the mark, because they do not understand what it means to be "born from above" [born again]. This is part of God's plan that everyone [every soul] be born of woman, from above. For documentation we find in the Book of Jude whereby the penalty of the fallen angels is given, in as much as they left their place of habitation. Angels are to inhabit heaven, or paradise at this time, in the flesh age.

This will surely lead into a study of who chose not to be born through a woman.... Jude
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