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thanks,
one possible thot,
if i tell my enemy that i forgive him,,,,,,,,he might feel no need to make peace with God,
but,
i'm sure that i need to pray, think some more,
Lord, reveal to us Your Will,
amen
Jesus prayed on the Cross,,,,,,,,"Father, forgive them,,,they know not what they do"
Should I Forgive My Enemy If He Is Un-repentant? God does not forgive un-repentant sinners
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#8
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Posted 06 February 2010 - 12:15 PM
We don't need to speak forgiveness but just move on hoping to influence the person into reality. If we continue to be excepted then good. The door is still open. But l like those thoughts Dennis. We can't go around forgiving and being lovey dovey.
Tough love speaks by not speaking.
Tough love speaks by not speaking.
This post has been edited by Miki: 06 February 2010 - 12:15 PM
My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. I and my Father are one.
John 10: 27-30
Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path. Psa. 119: 105
John 10: 27-30
Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path. Psa. 119: 105
#9
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Posted 06 February 2010 - 01:31 PM
dgbygrace, on 06 February 2010 - 10:47 AM, said:
Jesus also said
Luke 6
27"But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, 28bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. 29If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic. 30Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. 31Do to others as you would have them do to you. 32"If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' love those who love them. 33And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' do that. 34And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' lend to 'sinners,' expecting to be repaid in full. 35But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. 36Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful.
37"Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven. 38Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you."
Which doesn't mention repentance at all. And doesn't actually have much to do with the heart condition of the other person...just with ours. To me this underlines the point that forgiving frees us, and keeps us from allowing satan to gain a foothold in our life. If we have "room" in our heart (or soul) that is occupied with unforgiveness that is room that is not available for God's love and Spirit and power to fill.
Just thoughts...
Luke 6
27"But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, 28bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. 29If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic. 30Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. 31Do to others as you would have them do to you. 32"If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' love those who love them. 33And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' do that. 34And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' lend to 'sinners,' expecting to be repaid in full. 35But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. 36Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful.
37"Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven. 38Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you."
Which doesn't mention repentance at all. And doesn't actually have much to do with the heart condition of the other person...just with ours. To me this underlines the point that forgiving frees us, and keeps us from allowing satan to gain a foothold in our life. If we have "room" in our heart (or soul) that is occupied with unforgiveness that is room that is not available for God's love and Spirit and power to fill.
Just thoughts...
The example of Joseph proves the point that we must always be "eager to forgive". That was the defining factor with regard to Joseph and his brothers. Joseph had been so betrayed, that he thanks God for letting him not dwell on his family and his past, to forget them for the time-being. (Gen. 41:51), and rather to move on. (Notice that Joseph could have sent for his family at ANY TIME in his high position...he did NOT. However, he was not embittered with a grudge...lest he was able to "forgive" his brothers when they showed up, AFTER they had shown they were truly remorseful.(Gen. 45, Gen. 50:17)
In His Love,
Suzanne
#10
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Posted 06 February 2010 - 02:03 PM
tsth, on 06 February 2010 - 10:31 AM, said:
dgbygrace, on 06 February 2010 - 10:47 AM, said:
Jesus also said
Luke 6
27"But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, 28bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. 29If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic. 30Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. 31Do to others as you would have them do to you. 32"If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' love those who love them. 33And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' do that. 34And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' lend to 'sinners,' expecting to be repaid in full. 35But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. 36Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful.
37"Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven. 38Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you."
Which doesn't mention repentance at all. And doesn't actually have much to do with the heart condition of the other person...just with ours. To me this underlines the point that forgiving frees us, and keeps us from allowing satan to gain a foothold in our life. If we have "room" in our heart (or soul) that is occupied with unforgiveness that is room that is not available for God's love and Spirit and power to fill.
Just thoughts...
Luke 6
27"But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, 28bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. 29If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic. 30Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. 31Do to others as you would have them do to you. 32"If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' love those who love them. 33And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' do that. 34And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' lend to 'sinners,' expecting to be repaid in full. 35But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. 36Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful.
37"Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven. 38Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you."
Which doesn't mention repentance at all. And doesn't actually have much to do with the heart condition of the other person...just with ours. To me this underlines the point that forgiving frees us, and keeps us from allowing satan to gain a foothold in our life. If we have "room" in our heart (or soul) that is occupied with unforgiveness that is room that is not available for God's love and Spirit and power to fill.
Just thoughts...
The example of Joseph proves the point that we must always be "eager to forgive". That was the defining factor with regard to Joseph and his brothers. Joseph had been so betrayed, that he thanks God for letting him not dwell on his family and his past, to forget them for the time-being. (Gen. 41:51), and rather to move on. (Notice that Joseph could have sent for his family at ANY TIME in his high position...he did NOT. However, he was not embittered with a grudge...lest he was able to "forgive" his brothers when they showed up, AFTER they had shown they were truly remorseful.(Gen. 45, Gen. 50:17)
In His Love,
Suzanne
Good word Gace and Suzanne..It backs up what l said. But also remembering what dennis said..
Quote
if i tell my enemy that i forgive him,,,,,,,,he might feel no need to make peace with God,
It's why we take the whole word into consideration as well as each individual individually.
This post has been edited by Miki: 06 February 2010 - 02:04 PM
My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. I and my Father are one.
John 10: 27-30
Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path. Psa. 119: 105
John 10: 27-30
Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path. Psa. 119: 105
#11
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Posted 06 February 2010 - 03:38 PM
tsth, on 06 February 2010 - 12:31 PM, said:
dgbygrace, on 06 February 2010 - 10:47 AM, said:
Jesus also said
Luke 6
27"But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, 28bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. 29If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic. 30Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. 31Do to others as you would have them do to you. 32"If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' love those who love them. 33And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' do that. 34And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' lend to 'sinners,' expecting to be repaid in full. 35But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. 36Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful.
37"Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven. 38Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you."
Which doesn't mention repentance at all. And doesn't actually have much to do with the heart condition of the other person...just with ours. To me this underlines the point that forgiving frees us, and keeps us from allowing satan to gain a foothold in our life. If we have "room" in our heart (or soul) that is occupied with unforgiveness that is room that is not available for God's love and Spirit and power to fill.
Just thoughts...
Luke 6
27"But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, 28bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. 29If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic. 30Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. 31Do to others as you would have them do to you. 32"If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' love those who love them. 33And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' do that. 34And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' lend to 'sinners,' expecting to be repaid in full. 35But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. 36Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful.
37"Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven. 38Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you."
Which doesn't mention repentance at all. And doesn't actually have much to do with the heart condition of the other person...just with ours. To me this underlines the point that forgiving frees us, and keeps us from allowing satan to gain a foothold in our life. If we have "room" in our heart (or soul) that is occupied with unforgiveness that is room that is not available for God's love and Spirit and power to fill.
Just thoughts...
The example of Joseph proves the point that we must always be "eager to forgive". That was the defining factor with regard to Joseph and his brothers. Joseph had been so betrayed, that he thanks God for letting him not dwell on his family and his past, to forget them for the time-being. (Gen. 41:51), and rather to move on. (Notice that Joseph could have sent for his family at ANY TIME in his high position...he did NOT. However, he was not embittered with a grudge...lest he was able to "forgive" his brothers when they showed up, AFTER they had shown they were truly remorseful.(Gen. 45, Gen. 50:17)
In His Love,
Suzanne
Thank you Suzanne...That illustrates what I was trying to point out...how forgiveness is not just for the person who committed the wrong.
No one would argue that Joseph's brothers did wrong to him. But in order for Joseph to move on in his journey with God he could not dwell (as you said) on those wrongs.
If we only wait to forgive until the other person repents...we may be waiting a rather long time, and it saps all of our energy during that time.
And I am not saying we should be all "lovey-dovey" to the offending person. I completely agree that we may need to just leave them alone.
I think the important thing is the condition of our own heart. For myself, I tend to push people away because if they have hurt or angered me I want to be done with them. In many cases this has nothing to do with forgiveness...
God has forgiven me (!!) and I have no right not to forgive someone else. Whether there is any interaction between us in the future is for God to decide, I am only responsible for the state of my heart. (i.e. I have to be willing if He decides I do have to deal with them more).
Names Bible Code Now On Youtube ...finally!
http://www.christian...showtopic=35054
http://www.youtube.c...h?v=UxGLeux40RQ
"But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come" (John 16:13-14).
"The only true work of art is a human soul, all else is but a reflection."
"Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass...
it's about learning how to dance in the rain."
Isaiah 30:15 This is what the Sovereign LORD, the Holy One of Israel, says:
"In repentance and rest is your salvation,
in quietness and trust is your strength..."
#12
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Posted 06 February 2010 - 04:25 PM
dgbygrace, on 06 February 2010 - 02:38 PM, said:
And I am not saying we should be all "lovey-dovey" to the offending person. I completely agree that we may need to just leave them alone.
I think the important thing is the condition of our own heart. For myself, I tend to push people away because if they have hurt or angered me I want to be done with them. In many cases this has nothing to do with forgiveness...
God has forgiven me (!!) and I have no right not to forgive someone else. Whether there is any interaction between us in the future is for God to decide, I am only responsible for the state of my heart. (i.e. I have to be willing if He decides I do have to deal with them more).
I think the important thing is the condition of our own heart. For myself, I tend to push people away because if they have hurt or angered me I want to be done with them. In many cases this has nothing to do with forgiveness...
God has forgiven me (!!) and I have no right not to forgive someone else. Whether there is any interaction between us in the future is for God to decide, I am only responsible for the state of my heart. (i.e. I have to be willing if He decides I do have to deal with them more).
I'll just repeat that when I saw the verses where Joseph "thanked God" for letting him "forget his father's house" and he's moving on with his own life, (this is exampled by the fact that in Gen. 41, where he thanks God for this, it's in context of talking about Joseph's own personal life and family), I was amazed at this verse, when I thought about it. He/Joseph, went on with his life and left his family behind (for the time)...and that was ok...and also he did not grow bitter...that was even better!
This story always amazes me...it is my favorite story in the Bible...such restoration/vindication/and glory to God!
In His Love,
Suzanne