[lesliefain]

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The scripture that you are referring to,I believe is meant for national Israel.

That is a good possibility. I had not thought of that!

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Maybe we should use the bible first,,before using alternate sources,,,,,So you said you believe there will be a pre-trib rapture correct???

Everything I read and lisen to I go back and look at what the word says. My map is just using what scripture says. I believe that the bible does have the answers in it and it will be revealed when the time is right. Remember daniel was told to seal up the book until the end of the times were here. There are pin points of time in the word that I have found. The first pin point is the 6th seal which is the day of the Lord Isa 2:10-21 and rev 6:12-17 which is why I believe the seals are being broken now the 7th trumpet will be just after the 2 witness's are killed so that tells me that the trumpet judgements will be during the first half of the tribulation and another pin point is that the bowl judgements will be during the year 2016 because revelations 14:13 matches to psalm 116. It is hard to explain without looking at it in picture view.
I believe that the church will be gone before trib even begins, the last 7 year period is for the jews

[ozell]

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Everything I read and lisen to I go back and look at what the word says. My map is just using what scripture says. I believe that the bible does have the answers in it and it will be revealed when the time is right. Remember daniel was told to seal up the book until the end of the times were here. There are pin points of time in the word that I have found. The first pin point is the 6th seal which is the day of the Lord Isa 2:10-21 and rev 6:12-17 which is why I believe the seals are being broken now the 7th trumpet will be just after the 2 witness's are killed so that tells me that the trumpet judgements will be during the first half of the tribulation and another pin point is that the bowl judgements will be during the year 2016 because revelations 14:13 matches to psalm 116. It is hard to explain without looking at it in picture view.
I believe that the church will be gone before trib even begins, the last 7 year period is for the jews

Hi

remove the dates! this is just speculations and could lead someone to think that the world ends at this time and we have seen people who lack understanding do foolish things.

as far as your post above it makes sense except for the date.

the Lord told daniel to close the book for it is for the end time not daniel's time

[lesliefain]

I am not setting the hour or the day just the time period that the bible says itself. Jesus himself said to the Jews of his time You can discern the face of the sky and of the earth but how is it that you do not discern this time? The psalms tell when trib begins and ends even when the antichrist appears which is next year. Psalm 109 is the only psalm that mentions the name of satan and it is the psalm that invokes Gods wrath. Psalms 110 and 118 are messianic psalms. 110 says the Lord said to my Lord sit at my right hand until I make your enemies your footstool. 118 says The stone which the builders refused is become the headstone of the corner. Psalm 111-117 are the seven years with 114 being mid trib which says "Tremble oh earth at the presence of the Lord at the presence of the God of Jacob. Read psalm 108 and realize how true everything is for this year of 2008. 108:2 says awake, psaltery and harp. Did you know that Israel just finished making the harp for the new temple? 108:6 says that thy beloved may be delivered. If you look up delivered in the concordance the definition is to strip, to depart, to deliver, equip, present, strengthen so I am wondering how the beloved will be delivered. 108:7-9 divides up Jerusalem which is happening right now, 108:9 says Moab is my washpot: over Edom will I cast out my shoe. Did you know at one of the meetings of the arabs that one of the delegates threw his shoe over the table? God always lets his people know what is going on. 1Thessalonians 5:2-4 says For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. for when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them. as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. But you, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief! We are to study the word and discern the time of his coming, study to show yourselves workmen approved!!

This post has been edited by lesliefain: 21 August 2008 - 08:21 AM

[Mysteryman]

lesliefain, on Aug 21 2008, 08:13 AM, said:

I am not setting the hour or the day just the time period that the bible says itself. Jesus himself said to the Jews of his time You can discern the face of the sky and of the earth but how is it that you do not discern this time? The psalms tell when trib begins and ends even when the antichrist appears which is next year. Psalm 109 is the only psalm that mentions the name of satan and it is the psalm that invokes Gods wrath. Psalms 110 and 118 are messianic psalms. 110 says the Lord said to my Lord sit at my right hand until I make your enemies your footstool. 118 says The stone which the builders refused is become the headstone of the corner. Psalm 111-117 are the seven years with 114 being mid trib which says "Tremble oh earth at the presence of the Lord at the presence of the God of Jacob. Read psalm 108 and realize how true everything is for this year of 2008. 108:2 says awake, psaltery and harp. Did you know that Israel just finished making the harp for the new temple? 108:6 says that thy beloved may be delivered. If you look up delivered in the concordance the definition is to strip, to depart, to deliver, equip, present, strengthen so I am wondering how the beloved will be delivered. 108:7-9 divides up Jerusalem which is happening right now, 108:9 says Moab is my washpot: over Edom will I cast out my shoe. Did you know at one of the meetings of the arabs that one of the delegates threw his shoe over the table? God always lets his people know what is going on. 1Thessalonians 5:2-4 says For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. for when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them. as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. But you, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief! We are to study the word and discern the time of his coming, study to show yourselves workmen approved!!

We are not to discern the time of his coming. Faith is knowing that he is coming to gather up the Church. And that when he comes to gather up the Church, it will not be a day of darkness for us, in that it would overtake us a thief. That is because we are the one's leaving and only those who are left will be in darkness that we are gone. Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen <- Hebrews 11:1

Hebrews 11:6 - "But without faith it is impossible to please him, for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him"

Don't look for the time of his coming, just have faith that he is coming to gather up the Church

IN Christ - MM

[Gideon7620]

lesliefain, on Aug 13 2008, 11:15 PM, said:

1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition


Doesn't this scripture say that the antichrist must be revealed before our gathering together unto Jesus? Where have we gotten the belief that we are to go before he is revealed? So many Christians believe we are going soon and when it doesn't happen could this then be the falling away? I have been studying prophesy and came across this because I too have been thinking that the rapture happens before the antichrist is revealed and now I don't know how our belief of the rapture happening before the antichrist is revealed came into existence. Can anyone show me scripture on this? Psalm 108 states that the beloved will be delivered and psalm 108 is believed to be the year 2008. So based on that I believe the church of philadelphia is the beloved. Then in psalm 109 it talks of satan which many believe that the antichrist will be revealed in 2009. I am wanting to go so bad but I have to look at scripture and see what it says. So then the main rapture would be Sep 19, 2009 not this year except for the church of philadelphia. My mind is tired right now so maybe this is a dumb question!

Gideon7620 said, yes this is rediculous and false that we woudl leave before the abominaiton that makes desolate and the persecution that goes along with it. If you would like to know where this fairy tale came from, read my thread. Most of the answers are there now. I will soon finish it off with Biblical proof as the icing on the cake.

Please check this out, the fairtale of a pretribulation rapture.

http://www.christian...s...c=22433&hl=