[Shekel]

Click on the audio links. The debate is well done, and well worth your time listening to.

http://richarddawkin...ennox_part1.mov

http://richarddawkin...ennox_part2.mov

http://richarddawkin...ennox_part3.mov

Dean

[Humble Bob]

A very good debate. I can see points on both sides of the argument, for and against the idea of God, but mostly for the belief in Christ, which I have a bias for. I don't know why I have that bias, so I guess I am delusional believing in a God, and I don't mind that at all.

To me believing in God is very beautiful, and I value it. But I do not possess the ability to prove that God exist, and I don't believe anyone else does. Proving God exist requires acceptance of some fundamental notions that in themselves require acceptance or belief, and still this is not evidence or proof of God.

In this life God exist by faith and faith alone. Without faith, God is not real.

2 Corinthians 4:4
Because the god of this world has made blind the minds of those who have not faith, so that the light of the good news of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, might not be shining on them.

[jhamner]

I heard this the night of the debate. I really think that Lennox did well defending the faith!

This post has been edited by jhamner: 10 October 2007 - 02:23 PM

[Shekel]

Humble Bob, on Oct 10 2007, 03:18 PM, said:

A very good debate. I can see points on both sides of the argument, for and against the idea of God, but mostly for the belief in Christ, which I have a bias for. I don't know why I have that bias, so I guess I am delusional believing in a God, and I don't mind that at all.

To me believing in God is very beautiful, and I value it. But I do not possess the ability to prove that God exist, and I don't believe anyone else does. Proving God exist requires acceptance of some fundamental notions that in themselves require acceptance or belief, and still this is not evidence or proof of God.

In this life God exist by faith and faith alone. Without faith, God is not real.

2 Corinthians 4:4
Because the god of this world has made blind the minds of those who have not faith, so that the light of the good news of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, might not be shining on them.

I think you are right, only if we include atheism too. Atheists believe what they do by faith as well. However, the evidence clearly favors the existence of God by far.

Belief without evidence is wrong, I think, no matter what one believes.

[Humble Bob]

Shekel, on Oct 11 2007, 04:43 PM, said:

Humble Bob, on Oct 10 2007, 03:18 PM, said:

A very good debate. I can see points on both sides of the argument, for and against the idea of God, but mostly for the belief in Christ, which I have a bias for. I don't know why I have that bias, so I guess I am delusional believing in a God, and I don't mind that at all.

To me believing in God is very beautiful, and I value it. But I do not possess the ability to prove that God exist, and I don't believe anyone else does. Proving God exist requires acceptance of some fundamental notions that in themselves require acceptance or belief, and still this is not evidence or proof of God.

In this life God exist by faith and faith alone. Without faith, God is not real.

2 Corinthians 4:4
Because the god of this world has made blind the minds of those who have not faith, so that the light of the good news of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, might not be shining on them.

I think you are right, only if we include atheism too. Atheists believe what they do by faith as well. However, the evidence clearly favors the existence of God by far.

Belief without evidence is wrong, I think, no matter what one believes.

...but dear, Shekel, I face every day without evidence of God, though I still believe. I struggle, and it's a wonder.

The sun shines both on good and ill willed people, and even those that are unrighteous may love their children just as a righteous.

What I may show to someone another can argue, and write it off to randomness, coincidence or a natural process.

So, I think it that my belief is a blessing, that God said of me "and he shall believe," and I believe without evidence. Had not the Lord said this I would be lost, and should the Lord say " he shall loose faith" I am again also lost.

It is like a compass needle that knows to point north, it just does. Science can explain that, but science cannot explain why some people truely believe in God.

It is not people that chooses to believe God, it is God who calls people to believe. God says "Dean will be a believer" and so it is. This doesn't take evidence for proving God. His Word is enough.

[Shekel]

Humble Bob, on Oct 11 2007, 11:13 PM, said:

Shekel, on Oct 11 2007, 04:43 PM, said:

Humble Bob, on Oct 10 2007, 03:18 PM, said:

A very good debate. I can see points on both sides of the argument, for and against the idea of God, but mostly for the belief in Christ, which I have a bias for. I don't know why I have that bias, so I guess I am delusional believing in a God, and I don't mind that at all.

To me believing in God is very beautiful, and I value it. But I do not possess the ability to prove that God exist, and I don't believe anyone else does. Proving God exist requires acceptance of some fundamental notions that in themselves require acceptance or belief, and still this is not evidence or proof of God.

In this life God exist by faith and faith alone. Without faith, God is not real.

2 Corinthians 4:4
Because the god of this world has made blind the minds of those who have not faith, so that the light of the good news of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, might not be shining on them.

I think you are right, only if we include atheism too. Atheists believe what they do by faith as well. However, the evidence clearly favors the existence of God by far.

Belief without evidence is wrong, I think, no matter what one believes.

...but dear, Shekel, I face every day without evidence of God, though I still believe. I struggle, and it's a wonder.

The sun shines both on good and ill willed people, and even those that are unrighteous may love their children just as a righteous.

What I may show to someone another can argue, and write it off to randomness, coincidence or a natural process.

So, I think it that my belief is a blessing, that God said of me "and he shall believe," and I believe without evidence. Had not the Lord said this I would be lost, and should the Lord say " he shall loose faith" I am again also lost.

It is like a compass needle that knows to point north, it just does. Science can explain that, but science cannot explain why some people truely believe in God.

It is not people that chooses to believe God, it is God who calls people to believe. God says "Dean will be a believer" and so it is. This doesn't take evidence for proving God. His Word is enough.

I think what you said is true, more or less. However, the bible has a great many examples where the prophet or apostle is reasoning with people to believe based upon evidence of some sort, ether fulfilled prophecy, or creation, or conscience. Therefore, God does not expect us to believe without good reasons to believe, although it seems that in God's eyes men are very slow and hard of heart to believe the obvious truth that He is.

But I do concede, that it seems to me, both by personal experience and by the bible, that faith is the gift of God.