[Prophet]

Matthew 27
43 He trusted in God; let Him deliver Him now if He will have Him; for He said, 'I am the Son of God.' "
44 Even the robbers who were crucified with Him reviled Him with the same thing.

Acts 1
9 Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight.

[dgbygrace]

us2are1, on Sep 13 2009, 05:30 PM, said:

In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Where is the scripture that tell about anyone going to heaven, either when they die or when the Lord returns?

The thief on the cross in Luke is disputed by Matthew who was an eye witness. It is also apparent that the thief died that day and was not resurrected back to life with Christ three days later making Luke's statement untrue. Christ did not die and go to heaven He was resurrected back to Life and ascended into the sky.

Jesus said "I will come again and receive you to myself; that where I am am, there ye may be also." This speaks of going somewhere else. Granted it does not name it as "heaven". However, the Bible states that the just live by faith, and whatever is not of faith is sin.

I would have to dispute with you on saying that the thief that died that day and no mention being made of his being resurrected, does not provide evidence that Luke's statement is untrue. While that may or may not be the case (based solely on what is written), there is nothing in the account we are given to say that he was NOT with Christ. Therefore all other conclusions are strictly conjecture. To jump to that conclusion because no further proof is given is, in my humble opinion, a bit arrogant on our part. Just because we don't understand every detail, or because we haven't witnessed every facet of an event does not in any way change what said event was. God himself said that the highest wisdom of man is not even equal to the least foolishness of His.

This post has been edited by dgbygrace: 13 September 2009 - 09:10 PM

[Prophet]

dgbygrace, on Sep 13 2009, 06:35 PM, said:

us2are1, on Sep 13 2009, 05:30 PM, said:

In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Where is the scripture that tell about anyone going to heaven, either when they die or when the Lord returns?

The thief on the cross in Luke is disputed by Matthew who was an eye witness. It is also apparent that the thief died that day and was not resurrected back to life with Christ three days later making Luke's statement untrue. Christ did not die and go to heaven He was resurrected back to Life and ascended into the sky.

Jesus said "I will come again and receive you to myself; that where I am am, there ye may be also." This speaks of going somewhere else. Granted it does not name it as "heaven". However, the Bible states that the just live by faith, and whatever is not of faith is sin.

I would have to dispute with you on saying that the thief that died that day and no mention being made of his being resurrected, does not provide evidence that Luke's statement untrue. While that may or may not be the case (based solely on what is written), there is nothing in the account we are given to say that he was NOT with Christ. Therefore all other conclusions are strictly conjecture. To jump to the conclusion that because no further proof is given, in my humble opinion, is a bit arrogant on our part. Just because we don't understand every detail, or because we haven't witnessed every facet of an event does not in any way change what said event was. God himself said that the highest wisdom of man is not even equal to the least foolishness of His.

It does not speak of going somewhere else. Christ is coming here and the saints are going up into the air of earth to meet Him at his return. This is where Christ will be and where his chosen will be. Christ returns and sets up His kingdom on earth for a thousand years. Until the thousand years are completed there is no mention in scripture of Christ leaving again, not even for a moment.

[dgbygrace]

I agree that when Jesus returns for the thousand year reign there is no mention of Him leaving again. However, in reference to your opening question I still go back to John 14:2...

²In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. ³And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.


"I go..." to me, means somewhere else, and "that where I am, ye may be also" means we will go "there" to be with Him, thanks to Grace alone.

However, I am readily willing to admit that I don't understand what all of that will look like. Did you ever see the Dr. Suess movie of "Horton Hears a Who"? The Who's couldn't picture anything more than they could see, even though what they could see was only a tiny, TINY bit of what was reality.

[Prophet]

SecondWind, on Sep 13 2009, 06:46 PM, said:

us2are1, on Sep 13 2009, 04:11 AM, said:

Heaven is defined by " the sky with all things visible in it." Where clouds and tempest form.

God defined heaven as His throne where He who is Spirit sits.

Where is the scripture that says that anyone is going to Heaven?

There are none. There are about twenty different terms used for where we go and heaven is not one of them. That's because we go to paradise to wait for the resurrection then Christ then takes us up there.

Paradise? Where do you read about going to paradise to wait for the resurrection?
Christ was resurrected from death and the grave.

1 Corinthians 15
12 Now if Christ is preached that He has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead?

The resurrection is from the dead not from paradise.