[rwfranz]

Quote

"He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith to the churches."
...
"God is grieved with the conduct of His people (generally speaking) and is retracting His Spirit in stages just as He did when He withdrew from the temple in Ezekiel 8-11. "
...
"When the Spirit is departing, His power is wonderfully felt to all present---but few understand what is happening. Grace is being shown before darkness replaces the light! He is leaving, and not coming!"
...
"What once was called 'compromising with the world', is now called, 'bold evangelism!'"

I think that the Church needs to hear Matthew 23, 24, & 25. There are very powerful principles there. The church is in dire need of repentance, and mostly for not doing what Jesus said to do. While we may lament and cry that God gives grace (which is true), it is also true that our faith in Christ is shown by the works that we do. The grace of God is supposed to work itself out in our lives and be shown as we help others, else the grace has not been efficacious, or maybe we have not repented! Repentance isn't a one-time thing, either; repentance is a process, a life-long struggle.

"Feed the hungry... clothe the naked... visit the sick and those in prison." When did we stop? Or have we started yet? "That's not my ministry." Okay. Do you get in the way of those whose ministry it is? Or do you help them out when you can? Do you buy things made by slave labor in Pakistan and China, thus keeping them in that insufferable circumstance? What would Jesus have to say about that?

"Love your neighbor as yourself" - This implies that at least 50% of our incomes should be spent on other people and not on ourselves. How many of us measure up to that standard?

It's the job of a prophet to point to God and not to the people. It's the job of a prophet to say things that are not popular. It's the job of a prophet to ask hard questions.

Jesus says to love your enemies. How can you love your enemy when you're shooting at him? Or blowing him up?

Jesus says to love your neighbor. How can you love your neighbor if you don't know him? Is it even possible to love your neighbor if you hate his actions? (most people I know aren't capable of separating their emotions like that)

Jesus says to love God. How can you love God if you hate your neighbor? John, in 1 John, says that if you say you love God, and hate your brother, you're a liar.

Matthew 23 - 25.

John 13 - 15.

John 1 - 3

Matthew 5 - 7

All of these things, we American Christians have failed to do. We have a huge chunk of the wealth of the world - and we have used it for ourselves instead of helping others with it.

The bit you quoted from Revelation about Laodicea - is dead on the mark. Most American churches are right there. Rich, fat, dumb, happy. And complacent. But tribulation is coming. God is on the move. And Christians will change - and the blood of the martyrs will flow again. And people will rediscover what Christianity really means.

Roger

[meekness]

I don't write this to burst anyone's bubble, but...

...don't wait for a revival, because there will not be one, simple as that.

Quoting from the King James Bible (authorized version)

14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.

16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:

18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

This is the era where we are living, Laodicea. Notice that in the King James all the other churches are called by the name of the city such as Pergamos, Sardis, etc, but here, the last church is called the church of the Laodiceans, not the church in Laodicea. There is a reason for that. This church is doing it her own way, but Jesus Christ will spue her out of His mouth. I really believe the fine Christians I read on this website are rather the last ones (the small remnant) of the Philadelphia church which is almost entirely disapearred and replaced with "prosperity christians". Such church will not have a revival, because she needs nothing.

meekness

[Miki]

Yesterday as I was praying l thought l heard God say "Go to the window." So l got up and slid back my new curtains and opened the window. It had just rained and everything smelled so sweet and fresh. It looked great outside. We are getting ready to move so l've been fixing everything up. The deck has a new coat. Everything is trimmed and pruned. Fresh flowers.

I thought 'boy were getting ready to move and my house is all fixed up for the next one.'

Because God said "Go to the window" l believe he wanted to show me. The ones coming behind me that will take over my house will have some deeper work to do. They will be attracted and want to buy because hopefully the good will out weigh the bad. But l know it's only a face lift. It takes a lot to maintain a house.

Isn't that what it's all about anyway. Souls? The ones that are coming behing us.
It's a makeover not a new house. He revives us for the sake of those coming. I'm enjoying it too but l'm leaving. I don't know...Just seemed God was saying just before we get ready to move he's going to do a makeover.

It would fit in with what Shekel said in his post about the Spirit departing...I believe that when we as Christians depart that the world will know. (Then there will be fasting, praying and weeping)

Doesn't it seem to you that as a church we are in a place we've never been before? Look how we are communicating with each other. We can see and hear what's happening all around the world within minutes. Souls are being won like never before. Don't classify things too much. There's a lot of Good going on and God is in a hurry. Never forget we are sown together and why God says don't hurt the wheat...Be careful and encourage people.

God loves you and wants to do a makeover. You know it's still the same old house but let him do a work in you. For the sake of others that are coming behind you. They'll want to buy if the good out weighs the bad. Show them the best potential your house has. It's the heart of the home. My children were raised here and l love it for that. Show people that you love were you're at. Let it reflect in what you do. Don't become down trodden like l have in the last couple of years. You get tired and it's hard but God want's to help a lot if you'll let him.

[ishtob]

rwfranz, on Jan 18 2005, 02:02 AM, said:

Quote

"He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith to the churches."
...
"God is grieved with the conduct of His people (generally speaking) and is retracting His Spirit in stages just as He did when He withdrew from the temple in Ezekiel 8-11. "
...
"When the Spirit is departing, His power is wonderfully felt to all present---but few understand what is happening. Grace is being shown before darkness replaces the light! He is leaving, and not coming!"
...
"What once was called 'compromising with the world', is now called, 'bold evangelism!'"

The bit you quoted from Revelation about Laodicea - is dead on the mark. Most American churches are right there. Rich, fat, dumb, happy. And complacent. But tribulation is coming. God is on the move. And Christians will change - and the blood of the martyrs will flow again. And people will rediscover what Christianity really means.
Roger

Amen to that brother Roger!

~Ish

[Miki]

You seem satisfied that judgement is coming. You don't exactly fit into the below catagory...It's apples and oranges..BUT...It leaves a bad taste in my mouth when l read your 'amens'.
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Posted on: Nov 18 2004, 02:32 PM
Forum: (Interpreted) Dreams and Visions · Post Preview: #3576 · Replies: 11 · Views: 596
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Ray Stedman
"Amos: God Doesn't Play Favorites .........Now, the nation evidently went on resisting the appeal of the prophet, so he addresses two particular messages to these people, aimed at the two extreme views among the people of Israel. They are almost contradictory views. First he says:

Woe to those who desire the day of the Lord! (5:18)
And to the other group, he says:


"Woe to those who are at ease in Zion..." (6:1)

Now here are two quite distinct views among the people. There were those whom we might call the pious hypocrites who first came under the judgment of God. "Woe to you who desire the day of the Lord!" What does this mean? Well, you see, there were some people who were going about saying, "Oh, isn't this a terrible day. Oh, God is so hard. Things are so terrible." They were wringing their hands, appearing to be mourning, and going through all kinds of rituals and religious ceremonies and saying, "Oh, there is no hope for anything. Oh, if God would only come at last! Oh, would that the day of the Lord would come. Would that we could go home to be in heaven." Did you ever hear that? And the prophet thunders: "Woe to you that desire the day of the Lord."

Amos says, "Do you know what that day will be like? Do you have any idea what you are saying? Why," he says, "it is darkness, not light. It is as if a man fled from a lion, and a bear met him; or he went into the house and leaned a hand against the wall and a snake bit him. You talk about the day of the Lord. Why, you don't know what you are talking about! Woe to you." And God says,


"...I despise your feasts, and I take no delight in your [religious activities] solemn assemblies...and burnt offerings...Take away from me the noise of your songs...the melody of your harps...But let justice roll down like waters, and righteousness like an everflowlng stream." (5:21-24)
Do we ever get away from this? God desires truth in the inward parts, in the center of life---not outward conformity. God sees through that sham and pretense without the slightest difficulty and it doesn't impress him when we go through religious activity. "Thou desirest truth in the inward being." (Ps. 51:6)

Well, then there was another group that said, "We are not concerned about these things. Let's eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow we die. Let's have as good a time as we can and make the most of life; let's enjoy it to the full while we can." And the prophet says, "Woe to those who are at ease in Zion."

Amos asks, "How can you be so restful when the nation is so restless? How can you content yourselves with riches and wealth and the good things of life when people are lying in distress outside in the streets and judgment is taken away from your courts?" So there comes this powerful message:


Woe to those who lie upon beds of ivory, and stretch themselves upon their couches, and eat lambs from the flock, and calves from the midst of the stall; who sing idle songs to the sound of the harp...(6:4, 5a)
...in the midst of the threatening judgment of God? These are the two extreme groups. As Amos goes on, he shows in a series of visions that were given to him that the nation is rapidly ripening for judgment.

At last there comes the final scene, almost always pictured by the prophets---a scene of beauty, peace, and glory. It reveals what God wants and, therefore, why God is angry at hypocrisy. Listen to these words:


In that day I will raise up the booth of David that is fallen and repair its breaches, and raise up its ruins, and rebuild it as in the days of old. (9:11)
Do you remember where that is quoted in the New Testament? In the first council at Jerusalem, in Acts 15, when they were wondering whether God would save the Gentiles without the law of Moses, James stood up and quoted this verse from Amos. "The prophets," he said, "have declared that Godis going to send his grace out to the Gentiles," and he quoted this verse. (Acts 15:15-18) God's word was that he would raise up the tabernacle or the booth of David which had fallen, and repair its breaches. That is a picture of the coming of Christ, representing the house of David. And in the raising up of the Lord Jesus, the word was to go out to all the peoples. God would bless the world through him,


"...that they may possess the remnant of Edom and and the nations [all the Gentiles] who are called by my name," says the Lord who does this. (9:12)
The comes this beautiful scene:


"Behold, the days are coming," says the Lord, "when the plowman shall overtake the reaper and the treader of grapes him who sows the seed; the mountains shall drip sweet wine, and all the hills shall flow with it. I will restore the fortunes of my people Israel, and they shall rebuild the ruined cities and inhabit them; they shall plant vineyards and drink their wine, and they shall make gardens and ed their fruit. I will plant them upon their land, and they shall never again be plucked up out of the land which I have given them," says the Lord your God. (9:13-15)
That is a picture, of course, of the millennial days when Israel shall at last be restored to the land, never to be removed again.

Now then, why is God so angry with this people? If cruelty makes him angry, it is because his heart is so set upon kindness toward man. If oppression stirs his wrath, it is because he wants men to live in love and peace. If pain inflicted upon others brings judgment from God, it is because his heart is set upon happiness and the well-being of humanity.

The message of this book is that God is relentless when he begins to deal with man. He will not make peace. He will not compromise. When he begins to deal with a nation, he insists on absolute values. When he begins to deal with an individual, he deals with absolute values. Just the fact that we are Christians does not mean that we escape the condemnation of the judgment of the Word of God in those areas where we are attempting to compromise. Just because we have been Christians for 40 years doesn't change the relentlessness of the Word of God as it searches and probes our hearts and lives. God doesn't change.

The word of this prophet is that we are dealing with a God of righteousness and of unbending, inflexible zeal who will not compromise in any way, and yet, our God is a God of patience and of love. The marvelous undertone of this book, as through all the prophets, is that of the outpouring of the love of God's heart moving toward the well-being and the happiness of humanity, breaking out every now and then into beautiful forms of expression. Undergirding the whole book is the promise at last to bring Israel---and likewise all the people of God---into the day when man shall live in peace and joy, with blessings to fill the hearts of men. What a message of the impartiality of God's grace this is!"
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When Amos says, "Do you know what that day will be like? Do you have any idea what you are saying? Why," he says, "it is darkness, not light. It is as if a man fled from a lion, and a bear met him; or he went into the house and leaned a hand against the wall and a snake bit him. You talk about the day of the Lord. Why, you don't know what you are talking about! Woe to you."

I have to ask myself if this is for me?

Did l ask for fish and did he give me a snake?
Or bread and l receive a cold dead stone?

If the rapture comes during chaos (which l have always suspected) then people aren't going to know for sure if some one is dead or raptured.

What would it take to survive 7 years? Should l move to Montana or hide in a certain basement. My unctions would have to be right 100% of the time in order to survive under that protected category.

And what of those that claim that divine protection during that time. Preforming signs and wonders that protect. I might wonder if l missed the Spirit or the Mt. of Transfiguration experiance. Because here are the manifest sons of God doing great exploits.

I think we should consider all scenerios and motivations because of the great deception that is ahead of us. Even the elect are at risk.

It doesn't mean l see the above as cold hard facts but l want to consider all motives and angles when l read that people are seeing judgement and wrath to be poured out on all people.

[ishtob]

Miki, on Jun 24 2005, 09:18 AM, said:

   

You seem satisfied that judgement is coming.  You don't exactly fit into the below catagory...It's apples and oranges..BUT...It leaves a bad taste in my mouth when l read your 'amens'.

I understand... and still:

... the Lord said, Whereunto then shall I liken the men of this generation? and to what are they like?

They are like unto children sitting in the marketplace, and calling one to another, and saying, We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned to you, and ye have not wept.

For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine; and ye say, He hath a devil.

The Son of man is come eating and drinking; and ye say, Behold a gluttonous man, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners!

But wisdom is justified of all her children.

Luke 7:31-35


31-35. the Lord said, &c.--As cross, capricious children, invited by their playmates to join them in their amusements, will play with them neither at weddings nor funerals (juvenile imitations of the joyous and mournful scenes of life), so that generation rejected both John and his Master: the one because he was too unsocial--more like a demoniac than a rational man; the other, because He was too much the reverse, given to animal indulgences, and consorting with the lowest classes of society. But the children of Wisdom recognize and honor her, whether in the austere garb of the Baptist or in the more attractive style of his Master, whether in the Law or in the Gospel, whether in rags or in royalty, for "the full soul loatheth an honeycomb, but to the hungry soul every bitter thing is sweet" (Pro 27:7).

Commentary by DAVID BROWN
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