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God Changed Jacob's Name To Israel ISRAEL (contender with God) Rate Topic: -----

#1 User is offline   dennis mann 

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Posted 10 April 2010 - 08:01 AM

GOD CHANGED JACOB'S NAME TO ISRAEL

JACOB means supplanter, grasper of the heel,

JACOB = SPIRIT,,,,,,,ESAU = FLESH

they are 2 nations,,,
gen 25;23
saved and unsaved
sacred and profane,

jacob was plain and quiet
he bot esau's birthright with a stew of lentils,
the birthright included the office of PRIESTHOOD of the family, and PATRIARCH of the family,

and Esau counted it as beneath his notice,,,,,,,esau was profane

jacob wanted the birthright, but should have asked God for it (NOT grasped for it, buying it

like he did),

jacob grasped too much,
reached too far,
presumed too much,
jacob bot it from easu,,,,and presumed that God, Issac and Rebekah would "fall in line",

jacob was guilty of presumption and grasping too much,
he wanted the highest place at the banquet table,
he put himself forward by any means, even deception

===
gen 27;8
later, jacob acquiesced to his Mom's trick and deception, to get the birthright and

blessing, as PRIMOGENITOR,

again, jacob was guilty of sin, presumption, grasping, deception, tricks

===

gen 30;37
jacob put peeled white branches at the flocks, to cause them to birth streaked, speckled,

and spotted lambs and kids,
but that was superstition (and occult?),
again, jacob was grasping too much, by any means, including tricks,

it was really God that prospered jacob's flocks,

gen 31;5
jacob confessed that "the God of my father has been with me"

here now,,,,jacob is converting from a selfish, ungodly man,,,,to a selfless, Godly

man,,,,and to faith in the "God of my father"

===

gen 32;27-28

the Lord changed jacob's name from jacob (supplanter, schemer, trickster, swindler) to

ISRAEL (contender with God)........amplified bible

"for you have contended and have power with God and men , and have prevailed"


===


jacob/ISRAEL is a physical picture-story of a NT SPIRITUAL TRUTH, DOCTRINE........a sinner

changing to a SAINT

Praise God!
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#2 User is offline   cizz 

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Posted 10 April 2010 - 09:39 AM

Quote

"for you have contended and have power with God and men , and have prevailed"


Thank you, 'dennis mann'

You have me considering this word 'contended' and what it means...

Strong's H8280 - sarah

1) contend, have power, contend with, persist, exert oneself, persevere

a) (Qal) to persevere, contend with


AV power 2

Gen 32:28 And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.

Hsa 12:3 He took his brother by the heel in the womb, and by his strength he had power with God:
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#3 User is offline   dennis mann 

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Posted 10 April 2010 - 09:51 AM

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Hosea 12 (Amplified Bible)

Hosea 12
1EPHRAIM HERDS and feeds on the wind and pursues the [parching] east wind; every day he increases lies and violence, and a covenant is made with Assyria and oil is carried to Egypt.(A)
2The Lord has also a controversy (a pleading contention) with Judah, and will punish Jacob by visiting upon him according to his ways; according to his doings will He recompense him.

3He took his brother by the heel in [their mother's] womb, and in the strength [of his manhood] he contended and had power with God.(

4Yes, he had power over the [a]Angel [of the Lord] and prevailed; he wept and sought His favor. He met Him in Bethel, and there [God] spoke with [him and through him with] us--©

5Even the Lord the God of hosts, the name of Him [Who spoke with Jacob] is the Lord.

6Therefore return to your God! Hold fast to love and mercy, to righteousness and justice, and wait [expectantly] for your God continually!

7Canaan [Israel--whose ideals have sunk to those of Canaan] is a trader; the balances of deceit are in his hand; he loves to oppress and defraud.

8Ephraim has said, Ah, but I have become rich; I have gained for myself wealth. All my profits shall bring on me no iniquity that would be sin. [But all his profits will never offset nor suffice to expiate the guilt which he has incurred.](D)


9But I [Who] am the Lord your God from [when you became a nation in] the land of Egypt will yet make you to dwell in tents, as in the days of the appointed and solemn Feast [of Tabernacles].(E)

10I have also spoken to [you by] the prophets, and I have multiplied visions [for you] and [have appealed to you] through parables acted out by the prophets.

11If Gilead is given over to idolatry, they shall come to nought and be mere waste; if they [insult God by] sacrificing bullocks in Gilgal [on heathen altars], their altars shall be like heaps in the furrows of the fields.

12Jacob fled into the open country of Aram or Padan-aram, and [there] Israel served for a wife, and for a wife he herded sheep.(F)

13And by a prophet the Lord brought Israel out of Egypt, and by a prophet was [Israel] preserved.

14Ephraim has provoked most bitter anger; therefore shall his blood [guilt] be left upon him, and his disgrace and reproach shall his Lord return upon him.




Footnotes:
a.Hosea 12:4 See footnotes on Gen. 16:7 and Gen. 32:28.
Cross references:
A.Hosea 12:1 : Isa 30:6, 7
B.Hosea 12:3 : Gen 25:26; 27:36
C.Hosea 12:4 : Gen 28:12-19; 32:28; Gen 35:1-15
D.Hosea 12:8 : Rev 3:17
E.Hosea 12:9 : Lev 23:39-43
F.Hosea 12:12 : Gen 29:18-20; 30:31; 31:38-41
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#4 User is offline   cizz 

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Posted 10 April 2010 - 10:20 AM

View Postdennis mann, on 10 April 2010 - 10:51 AM, said:

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Hosea 12 (Amplified Bible)

Hosea 12
1EPHRAIM HERDS and feeds on the wind and pursues the [parching] east wind; every day he increases lies and violence, and a covenant is made with Assyria and oil is carried to Egypt.(A)
2The Lord has also a controversy (a pleading contention) with Judah, and will punish Jacob by visiting upon him according to his ways; according to his doings will He recompense him.

3He took his brother by the heel in [their mother's] womb, and in the strength [of his manhood] he contended and had power with God.(

4Yes, he had power over the [a]Angel [of the Lord] and prevailed; he wept and sought His favor. He met Him in Bethel, and there [God] spoke with [him and through him with] us--©

5Even the Lord the God of hosts, the name of Him [Who spoke with Jacob] is the Lord.

6Therefore return to your God! Hold fast to love and mercy, to righteousness and justice, and wait [expectantly] for your God continually!

7Canaan [Israel--whose ideals have sunk to those of Canaan] is a trader; the balances of deceit are in his hand; he loves to oppress and defraud.

8Ephraim has said, Ah, but I have become rich; I have gained for myself wealth. All my profits shall bring on me no iniquity that would be sin. [But all his profits will never offset nor suffice to expiate the guilt which he has incurred.](D)


9But I [Who] am the Lord your God from [when you became a nation in] the land of Egypt will yet make you to dwell in tents, as in the days of the appointed and solemn Feast [of Tabernacles].(E)

10I have also spoken to [you by] the prophets, and I have multiplied visions [for you] and [have appealed to you] through parables acted out by the prophets.

11If Gilead is given over to idolatry, they shall come to nought and be mere waste; if they [insult God by] sacrificing bullocks in Gilgal [on heathen altars], their altars shall be like heaps in the furrows of the fields.

12Jacob fled into the open country of Aram or Padan-aram, and [there] Israel served for a wife, and for a wife he herded sheep.(F)

13And by a prophet the Lord brought Israel out of Egypt, and by a prophet was [Israel] preserved.

14Ephraim has provoked most bitter anger; therefore shall his blood [guilt] be left upon him, and his disgrace and reproach shall his Lord return upon him.




Footnotes:
a.Hosea 12:4 See footnotes on Gen. 16:7 and Gen. 32:28.
Cross references:
A.Hosea 12:1 : Isa 30:6, 7
B.Hosea 12:3 : Gen 25:26; 27:36
C.Hosea 12:4 : Gen 28:12-19; 32:28; Gen 35:1-15
D.Hosea 12:8 : Rev 3:17
E.Hosea 12:9 : Lev 23:39-43
F.Hosea 12:12 : Gen 29:18-20; 30:31; 31:38-41
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This is speaking to my heart, dennis

2The Lord has also a controversy (a pleading contention) with Judah, and will punish Jacob by visiting upon him according to his ways; according to his doings will He recompense him.

When I look back over my past life, I can see now that God was always with me even in the times that I thought He wasn't, we truly do contend with God and men in that we are recompensed in our own doings, we may be forgiven for our doings, but we still reap that from what we do. I think that is about the time we grab hold of the Angel and cry show me how to do differently, I don't want to keep reaping this fruit for myself :blush: at least it is for me...

You allowed me to be blessed today with this, brother, thank the Lord and you!

Blessings' :1dsz5e4:
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Posted 10 April 2010 - 11:14 AM

Jacob Have I Loved


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by Rabbi Stanley

Mosaic Ministries


Here's how the story is usually told:

"Isaac and Rebecca had twin boys. One was bad and one was good. Esau was the good boy and Isaac really loved him. But Jacob was a rascal, always getting into trouble when he was a kid. He was a very tricky boy that's why he was named Jacob, which means "supplanter and deceiver".

When he was a teenager he tricked Esau out of his birthright. The birthright was the inheritance. Isaac was very wealthy and Jacob was a bit of a money grubber so he tricked poor Esau and stole his birthright from him. Not only that Jacob lied to his poor old dad and Rebecca helped him in his lies (what a bad mother!).

Later Jacob wrestled with an angel and the angel changed Jacob's name to Israel. From then on Jacob was a good boy, well, at least better then he was before."


Sound familiar? About 90% of this is incorrect. Let's start from the beginning and see where the problem starts.



Gen. 25:23

Here we see a prophecy given that the elder (Esau) would serve the younger (Jacob).

Then Rebecca gives birth to the twin boys.

Esau is first. He is rough and hairy so he is named Esau. Esau in Hebrew means rough and hairy. Jacob comes next. He is holding on to Esau's heel on the way out of the birth canal.

So he is named Ya-ah-cove. That's how babies were named in ancient times. Yahcove in Hebrew means "One who grabs by the heel"

It does not mean supplanter or deceiver as many notes will tell you in your translation of the Bible.

Think about it, what mother in their right mind would have a baby and look at their new born infant and say "Now there's a supplanter if I ever saw one.

That baby is a deceiver, I'll tell you that!" I know it sounds ridicules, but that's exactly what we are taught in Sunday School. Esau was named simply by how he looked and Jacob was named simply for what he was doing.
Let's read on.
In chapter 25:27 we begin to learn about the character of the 2 men.

It says "the boys grew up and Esau became a skillful hunter a man of the open country while Jacob was a plain man dwelling in tents." Notice here it says man not boy (We'll get more into their ages later).
So here we get an understanding of what these 2 men were like.

Esau is the outdoors type, kind of a man's man. But Jacob is kinda plain (some translations say "quiet man dwelling in tents") he seems almost boring and a bit of a mama's boy.

Let's look at that word "plain" in Hebrew. This word in Hebrew would be pronounced "TAWM". It is used 18 times in the Old Testament. It is translated by the KJV (King James Version) with these 3 English words

1. Perfect: Job 1:1

2. Upright: Prov. 10:29

3. Undefiled: Song of Solomon 5:2


Of the 18 times it is used these 3 words make up 17 of those times.

One time (and one time only) the word TAWM is used as the word "plain" and that's when describing one of the Jewish patriarchs.

Why did the KJV translators write "plain" instead of upright, undefiled or perfect?

Because when the KJV was being translated England was in the process of driving out the Jews from their country and confiscating everything the Jews owned.


So the translators weren't about to say anything nice about the Jews if they didn't have to.

So they slanted the translation when they could get away with it. This was one of those times.

This scripture should've said "And Jacob was a (perfect, upright or undefiled) man dwelling in tents"

What a different picture that would've given us rather then "plain". We never would've gotten a misrepresented story concerning Jacob had we read this from the very beginning.
Let's go on to the next part of the story... the birthright.
There are 3 parts to the Birthright given to the oldest son.
1. A double portion of the physical inheritance: goods, land, flocks etc,
Ref.: Deut. 21:17 Divided by the # of heirs + one: double to the first born
2. The spiritual birthright as priest/minister over the family.
Ref.: Exd. 28:1 Arron, oldest son
3. The special blessing
Ref.: Gen 27:26-41

Esau did not sell his physical birthright.

When Isaac died, Esau received his double portion of his father's wealth (Gen. 27:29). Jacob did NOT receive the double portion.
What was the spiritual birthright for the descendants of Abraham?

It was the right to have Messiah born through that line!! In other words, if you received the spiritual birthright... Yeshua (Jesus) would be your great great etc. grandson.

This was of no concern to Esau because there wasn't any money involved.

He says "what good is this birthright to me? (Gen 25:32) But Esau did want the special blessing. With the special blessing went: "I will bless them that bless thee and curse them that curse thee" (Gen 27:29)

Also included in the special blessing was material prosperity... Esau did want that!
Let's go back for a moment to when Jacob was cooking the lentil stew. What was Jacob doing cooking this stew? Every year there was a yearly memorial. A pot of this stew was to be cooked by the eldest son and he was supposed to fast for that 1 day.

At this meal special words or actions of the one being remembered are recounted so that the coming generations will not lose their heritage and the knowledge of their forefathers.

Isaac conducted these yearly memorials of Father Abraham as long as he was healthy enough to do so. He stopped when his eyes had dimmed and he grew too weak to perform the ritual. He was about 136 years old at that time. (Gen.27:1) When Isaac was too old to act as priest of the family, Esau should've then taken over the spiritual leadership of the family. But was Esau doing that? No! He was out hunting in the field.

Who was cooking the stew? Jacob. Who cared about spiritual matters? Jacob. So let's look at really happened here.
Here was Jacob, taking care of the spiritual aspects of the family while Esau was out doing what he liked to do...hunting. Esau comes in and says "Quick give me some of that stew I'm starving" (Gen 25:30).

Jacob says "Sell me your (spiritual) birthright" (vs 31). Esau says "Look, I am about to die," Yes I'm sure Esau was hungry after fasting for the whole day while out in the fields and he should've continued fasting for the rest of the day.

But you don't die of starvation from fasting for 1 day. He's clearly exaggerating here.

And he says "what good is it to me?". It was of no good to Esau, had it been about money, it would've done him some good in his thinking. But this was nothing to him. What good would he get out of something that wouldn't benefit him in the here and now?


This man was a profane man. Sound harsh?
Hebrews 12:16 "Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person such as Esau, who for one meal sold his birthright"

It seems to me that many people have this entire story backwards.

I'm given the impression that Esau is this poor guy who is swindled by his clever brother. That's many people's opinion.

What's God's opinion?

Whatever His opinion is, that should also be our opinion right? (Malachi 1 vs 2) "I have loved you says the Lord, but you ask "How have you loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother says the Lord yet I have loved Jacob but Esau I have hated"

You can interpret God 'hating' however you like, but it is clear that he didn't care for Esau much.

And notice God didn't say "I hated his sin". I'm not saying we should go around hating individuals but I am saying that if God says He loves Jacob and He hates Esau, I wouldn't want to be the one to put down and degrade Jacob and uplift or defend Esau.

God was clear in expressing how He feels and I'd rather be on His side.
Now some people will say to this, "That was in the Old Testament, when Jesus came it was all about love, not hate.

Here's my reply: Romans 9:13 (New Testament) "As it is written, Jacob have I loved and Esau I have hated". God felt so strongly about this He had it repeated 2000 years later in the Book of Romans for all to see.
Let's clear up one other thing.

Did Jacob steal Esau's birthright? Did he trick him? Did he deceive Esau?


No he did not.

What does the scripture say?

(Gen 25:31) Jacob said "Then SELL me your birthright".

He didn't steal it, Esau SOLD it to him, he even swore an oath!

Esau wasn't going to die from not eating for 1 day, he didn't have to sell it to Jacob. He didn't care about it so he sold it for a pot of lentils. Again, he sold it to Jacob fair and square.

No one was twisting Esau's arm.

Who was really trying to cheat? Esau was! later we find Esau going to get the birthright, the birthright he had already sold! He sold it then tried to renig on the deal.

Who was trying to cheat who? Jacob was simply trying to get what was already his. Did he lie to his father Isaac? Yes he did, he lied 3 times. Ever wonder why Isaac was so persistent in trying to find out if it was really Esau he was talking to?

First
he says "Who are you?" he then questions Jacob again suspiciously, then finally asks Jacob to come over so he can feel his arm to see if it's really Esau. Why all the suspicion?

Because it had already been foretold that the elder (Esau) would serve the younger (Jacob). Isaac knew! He was trying to bless Esau, his favorite son, even though he knew God didn't want him to.


Rebecca was trying to get Jacob what he was supposed to have by helping him. Was she right for doing it in this manner? No she wasn't, but she was far from being a bad mother. What she should've done was allow God to take care of this Himself. But you could see how she would've been concerned that her husband was going to go against the will of God.

She was a fine wife, mother and woman of God.

Let's move to the next point. Then you hear people say "Well, after he got his name changed to Israel, then he became a better guy". Let's take a look at that.

First of all Jacob never got his name changed. Abram did.

Notice when Abram's name was changed to Abraham, what was he then called throughout the rest of the Bible? He was called Abraham.

But this isn't so with Jacob. Why's that? Because Jacob's name wasn't changed at all, he was given a title: A Man Who Is A Prince With God- Yis ra el (Israel). That's what Israel means.

That's why we see later on it where it says "I am the Father of Abraham Isaac and Jacob" Not Abraham Isaac and Israel" You never see that anywhere.

That's because God never changed Jacobs name! When God changes a name, it's changed forever... like Abraham's.
So, did Jacob do some wrong? Yes, he did. He lied to his father 3 times. There is no excuse for lying. I have lied in my life and there wasn't any excuse for that either.

But here's another thing to notice. These 3 lies of Jacobs are the only sins recorded concerning Jacob. For all we know, they may have been the only sins he ever committed.

If this is true, then it wouldn't be hard to see Jacob as a perfect man, a TAWM man, dwelling in tents.


Let's recap-

1. Jacob doesn't mean supplanter or deceiver. 2. Jacob didn't steal the birthright, it was sold to him
3. Did Jacob get the physical birthright ie. the money? No, Esau got that.
4. Was Rebecca a bad mother? No, she was trying to get Jacob what rightfully belonged to him.
5. Was Esau the poor kid who was tricked out of his inheritance? No. Esau, the old man, got his money and still tried to cheat Jacob out of what Esau had sold him.
6. Did Jacob get his name changed? No, Jacob was given a title, his name was never changed.
7. After he was given a title, did he then "straighten up"? No.

Jacob was good from the beginning, he was a perfect man, an undefiled man, an upright man, he was a TAWM man dwelling in tents.
8. Will many have to apologize to Jacob when they see him in Heaven? Yes, I think they will.
This deals with the ages of Esau and Jacob at the time of the birthright story. These twins were not teenagers as you might think. They were old men.... 76 years old! How old were the brother's when the birthright story took place?
A. We have to start with the age of Joseph in Egypt and work backwards.
1. Gen. 30:46-47 Joseph was 30 years old when he became #2 in the land under Pharaoh; 37 at the end of 7 years of plenty.
2. Gen 45:6 In the second year of famine the household of Jacob came to Egypt, Joseph is now 39 years old
3. Gen. 47:9 In the second year of famine, when Jacob came to Egypt he was 130 years old
4. Subtracting Joseph's age of 39 from Jacobs age of 130 we find that Jacob was 91 years old when Joseph was born.
B. Now to the years Jacob worked for his uncle Laban.
1. Gen 29: 18-26 Jacob worked 7 years for Rachel: but Laban gave him Leah instead.
2 Gen 29: 27-28 Jacob agreed to work another 7 years because he loved Rachel so much
3. Gen. 30:25-26 Joseph, firstborn of Rachel. Jacobs eleventh son; was born at the end of Jacob's 14 year contract with Laban
4. Since Jacob was 91 when Joseph was born we know he was 77 years old when he came to his uncle Laban. 91 minus 14 years = 77
5. Gen 31:38 Jacob agreed to work another 6 years after Joseph's birth; returning to Canaan at 97 years old (7+7+6= a tottle of 20 years working for Laban)
6. Since the journey to Padam Aram would take less then one year, Jacob was about 76 years old when he fled from Esau because of the birthright.

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When Moses saw it, he wondered at the sight: and as he drew near to behold it, the voice of the LORD came unto him, Saying, I am the God of thy fathers, the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. Then Moses trembled, and durst not behold. Then said the Lord to him, Put off thy shoes from thy feet: for the place where thou standest is holy ground.

Acts 7:31-33


Every word of God is pure; He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him.

Proverbs 30:5



Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

2 Timothy 2:15



Basic Hebrew Analysis of Esau' Deceitful Nature



Gen 27:34 And when Esau heard the words of his father, he cried with a great and exceeding bitter cry, and said unto his father, Bless me, [even] me also, O my father.
35 And he said, Thy brother came with subtilty, and hath taken away thy blessing.
36 And he said, Is not he rightly named Jacob? for he hath supplanted me these two times: he took away my birthright; and, behold, now he hath taken away my blessing. And he said, Hast thou not reserved a blessing for me?


The Hebrew Exegesis -

And he said, Thy brother came with subtilty, and hath obtained thy blessing.
Genesis 27:35 KJV translation

Hebrew for Genesis 27:35

ויאמר בא אחיך במרמה ויקח ברכתך

במרמה- 'b'mirmah' can mean subtle/subtlety in the sense of 'intelligently and astutely understanding the circumstances', rather than the KJV's brittle 'guile'. Isaac was not insulting Jacob to Esau, but explaining to Esau concerning Jacob's superiority - in the light of the previous, clear explanations, Isaac knew that Jacob better understood the significance of the birthright and so with 'b'mirmah', subtlety he 'obtained' the birthright. Don't forget, in the light of the previous, clear explanation, Isaac asked Jacob 3 times:

Who was trying to cheat who? Jacob was simply trying to get what was already his. Did he lie to his father Isaac? Yes he did, he lied 3 times. Ever wonder why Isaac was so persistent in trying to find out if it was really Esau he was talking to?

First he says "Who are you?" he then questions Jacob again suspiciously, then finally asks Jacob to come over so he can feel his arm to see if it's really Esau. Why all the suspicion?

Because it had already been foretold that the elder (Esau) would serve the younger (Jacob). Isaac knew! He was trying to bless Esau, his favorite son, even though he knew God didn't want him to.

Notice that 'b'mirmah' does not mean 'crafty' as in Genesis 3:1 :

Now the serpent was more crafty than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said to the woman, "Indeed, has God said, 'You shall not eat from any tree of the garden '
Genesis 3:1

והנחש היה ערום מכל חית השדה אשר עשה יהוה אלהים ויאמר אל־האשה אף כי־אמר אלהים לא תאכלו מכל עץ הגן׃

ערום - 'aroom' means 'crafty' in the sense of willful deceitfulness and the KJV translates it as 'subtle', the same as 'b'mirmah' ... one denotes a deceitful craftiness in the serpent, yet Isaac does not use the hebrew 'aroom' for Jacob, but 'mirmah' meaning subtle intelligence as opposed to Esau's own 'aroom' nature. Nowhere in scripture does Jacob epitomize the 'serpent' nature - Esau does, and threatens to kill Jacob. Jesus said:

The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I came that they may have life, and have it abundantly.
John 10:10

This describes Esau, not Jacob who uses 'mirmah' rather than 'aroom' to obtain what is actually his. The Word says:

"Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person such as Esau, who for one meal sold his birthright"

Hebrews 12:16

Now, concerning Genesis 27:36:

And he said, Is not he rightly named Jacob? for he hath supplanted me these two times: he took away my birthright; and, behold, now he hath taken away my blessing. And he said, Hast thou not reserved a blessing for me?


Firstly, Esau is lying as is evidenced by Hebrews 12:16 which says he sold the birthright.
Secondly, the definition of the name 'Jacob' is Esau's own misguided one since 'Yaacov' does not mean supplanter at all, but one who grasps at the heel.
Esau's interpretation of what Jacob did at birth as a baby is mean-spirited, flawed and misapplied as one would expect of a fornicator (rapist in the field while hunting) and of a profane person according to Hebrews 12:16. Esau's testimony is not to be believed, accepted or pondered at all. Notice that Isaac gave no assent to it -

And Isaac answered and said unto Esau, Behold, I have made him thy lord, and all his brethren have I given to him for servants; and with corn and wine have I sustained him: and what shall I do now unto thee, my son?
Genesis 27:37




Looking at the hebrew of Genesis 27:36:

ויאמר הכי קרא שמו יעקב ויעקבני זה פעמים את־בכרתי לקח והנה עתה לקח ברכתי ויאמר הלא־אצלת לי ברכה׃

יעקב ויעקבני ... with vowels it's.... 'yaacove veyakveini' which literally means -

And he said, Is not he rightly named 'one who grasps my heel? for he hath grasped my heel these two times: he obtained 'lakach' ( לקח )my birthright; and, behold, now he hath obtained 'lakach' ( לקח ) my blessing. And he said, Hast thou not reserved a blessing for me?

Esau is the consummate liar, a serpent of 'aroom', crafty deceit. He uses the hebrew 'lakach' to mean 'steal or take away' which is false and a false translation. 'Lakach' merely means to 'take' ... not 'to steal, snatch or "take away".

Jesus in John 10:10 uses the proper hebrew word (which describes Esau to a "T") and that hebrew word is 'leegnov' - which means to steal -לגנוב

הגנב לא יבוא כי אם לגנוב ולהרוג ולאבד ואני באתי לבעבור הביא להם חיים ומלא ספקם׃

The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I came that they may have life, and have it abundantly.
John 10:10

Esau comes only to steal and kill and destroy: Jacob does not and never did.

The nations which proceeded from him testify to that in relation to the way they have treated Jacob.


(Malachi 1 vs 2) "I have loved you says the Lord, but you ask "How have you loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother says the Lord yet I have loved Jacob but Esau I have hated"


read this link over a few times -

http://searchwarp.com/swa415109.htm






The translation is not so much 'faulty' but inappropriate for the context and the literal hebrew meaning. 'Crafty' and 'subtle' are similar but not the same, while 'supplanter' is a radical application which is just not a good/fitting translation.

In the hands of those already predisposed to be antisemitic for various 'reasons' eg. an agenda of jealousy, a bad experience with a person, parental influence, anti-Israel preaching in the Church, teachings of the 'Church fathers', media-bias etc., then the anti-Jacob, anti-Jewish, anti-Israel 'translations' and 'commentaries' are gleefully ingested ... and posted.
Replacement Theology mixed with an impotent, powerless, grumbling church, etc. produce the inevitable results. The Holocaust and the present anti-Zionist Muslim genocidal agenda are the products of this 'replacement theology'.

The God of Israel is going to settle the score as He did in Egypt with the genocidal antisemitic Pharoah Ramses, his army and his people. The Old and New Testaments corroborate this desire to destroy Israel in every way possible. (Psalm 83)

I wouldn't saddle Jeroboam with all of the church's failings or with overt antisemitism
since the church's basic 'history' after 325 AD. is really a dismal failure but you have an interesting point there.

"Then Jeroboam drove Israel from following the Lord, and made them commit a great sin. For the children of Israel walked in all the sins of Jeroboam which he did; they did not depart from them, until the Lord removed Israel out of His sight, as He had said by all His servants the prophets. So Israel was carried away from their own land to Assyria, as it is to this day" (2Kings 17:21-23).

It's certain that Jeroboam's sins had far-reaching consequences. They led to the removal of God's blessings on the 10-tribed nation because not one of Israel's kings who followed Jeroboam initiated the necessary reforms that would have led the nation back to God's way of worship. Instead, all continued in his sins (2Kings 3:3; 10:29; 13:2; etc.). God does not give us a choice on how we are to worship Him (Deuteronomy 12:32). He gives us a choice of whether we will worship Him according to the instructions He has given.

Israel was instructed to worship the Eternal God, not two golden calves. God's chosen people were told that the Feast of Tabernacles was to be observed in the seventh month of the year, not the eighth month. Not one of Israel's kings restored the true worship of God. The result was a horrific national captivity for all 10 tribes.

Many in the mainstream Christian world have not learned this vital lesson from the life of King Jeroboam and successive kings (not so much from the Jewish people who were subject to such rulers ). The practices he set in motion--substituting his own days, methods and kinds of worship for those God commanded--have continued down to this day in the church. To this day, those in the synagogue call the Catholic 'Church', Edom (Esau) , along with all those who 'use' Jesus teachings to cloak their antisemitic dispositions. But it does not take long to tell who they are.




This post has been edited by voice: 10 April 2010 - 11:23 AM

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Posted 10 April 2010 - 02:18 PM

Excerpt: Jewish Funerals

The meal of consolation (seudat havra'ah), the first meal eaten on returning from the funeral, traditionally consists of hard boiled eggs and other round or oblong foods. This is often credited to the Biblical story of Jacob purchasing the birthright from Esau with stewed lentils; it is traditionally stated that Jacob was cooking the lentils soon after the death of his grandfather, Abraham.


'voice', thank you so much for sharing this article, very informative and enlightening...

Luk 1:33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
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