"He who made the Pleiades and Orion And changes deep darkness into morning..." (amos 5:8)

"He alone stretches out the heavens, and treads on the waves of the sea. He is the Maker of the Bear and Orion, the Pleiades and the constellations of the south." (job 9:8-9)

"Can you bind the cluster of the Pleiades, or loose the belt of Orion?" (job 38:31)

perhaps the israelites merely had a fascination with the heavens, but what if there is more to it?

maybe there is immortality. I wonder this too. A few weeks ago I could see the Pleiades nearish the moon. It made me again realise how small I was! It's easy to think sometimes that we here are the only really important part of God's creation.

i have always wondered, since every scripture is god-breathed and useful for some spiritual teaching, why the inspired scriptures so predominantly mention "pleiades and orion".

i don't want to get into deceptive "new age" talk here, nor do i want to sound like i am a new ager myself, but i am intrigued to say the least.

there has been much talk about a certain race of extraterrestrials referred to as the "pleiadeans" that are human in appearance and very beautiful. they are very peaceful and loving, who have apparently been helping humanity for quite some time. as a matter of fact, if you watch the documentary "ufos angels and gods", you'll find that there have been extraterrestrials who have help deter certain military confrontations on earth.

we all know that god's angels come from some unknown location, and that they are "extraterrestrial" to us, meaning they are not from this world. could it be possible that there may not just be some truth to some of this, but biblical truth as well?

for some of you have have read the thread about my experience with angels, you may know where i'm coming from and how fascinated i am at the moment with all of this...

Hi Immortality,

Here's some interesting reading or you:


ORIONS

Some claim that ’negative’ entities have been associated with some of the stars in the Orion constellation. Other sources claim that the Orion Nebula is a cosmic ’doorway’ to ’infinity’ or the realm of the Creator, which transcends the time-space-matter universe. Some astronomers claim that a huge, beautifully-illuminated multicolored ’light’ has emerged from the "nebula" (click image right) and is on an intercept-course with Earth, although at a rather leisurely pace and at this rate this ’light’ or ’star’ will reach earth approximately 3000 AD (give or take a hundred years).

Could this have something to do with the prophecy in Revelation 21? Since the Draconians are attempting to conquer the ’heavens’, they may have made futile attempts to enter the ’Eternity Gate’ and intercept the emerging ’Light’ (’War In Heaven’ between Michael and the ’Dragon’? - see: Rev. ch. 12). This may explain the alleged presence of the Draconians in the Orion constellation, although certain ’human’ groups have allegedly become curious of the ’Eternity Gate’ as well. The Orion open cluster itself is the base of a joint Reptiloid - Grey empire called the Unholy Six, which has been working out of NEMESIS in the SOL system. Many of the "planetoids" that have entered this system and have made observable "course alterations" are arriving from NEMESIS and the Orion-Draconian EMPIRE.

The Orion civilization was one of the very few that evolved into a state of technological advancement while still being in a state of spiritual conflict. In the Orion conflict there were two groups, the negative side who believed in the concept of serving the self. They believed if they served their self the whole would be served. This translates into seeking domination over others. The more positive spiritual side held the ideal of being of service to others. Does this sound familiar?

It is the exact same conflict that occurred in Atlantis between the Sons of Belial and the Law of One. It is the exact same conflict that occurs in our present world today. Do you serve self or ego, or do you serve God? This Orion conflict played out for eons of time in a most destructive and disturbing manner. There were three groups that formed. These three groups were:

The dominators, The victims, and The resistance. The dominators were the Orion Empire

The Black League was the resistance to the evil domination of the empire

Does this sound familiar?

The movie, "Star Wars", was actually based on this Orion conflict. The empire attempted to dominate mentally, emotionally, technologically, and even devised ways to control using the psychic arts for an evil purpose. There was apparently a great spiritual Avatar that came forward and awakened the Orion people to the Law of Love and Forgiveness. This facilitated the beginning of a mass awakening for the civilization. There are parts of the Orion system that have awakened and parts that are still trying to dominate. One of those still trying to dominate in the Orion system is the reptillian race.

The positive Orions that are visiting the Earth are contributing their advanced mental power for the development of smoothly running systems of organization on Earth. These Orions vibrate and resonate to the color yellow, and beam this frequency to Earth for the purpose of stabilizing the intuitive powers within the human consciousness. The Ashtar Command serves in a certain sense as heaven’s policemen, and there are actually six planets in the Orion system, and a group called the Deros, from Orion inner space, that have had to be completely cordoned off so beware of anything to do with the Orion Nebula.


PLEIADEANS

Blond or in some cases brunette ’Nordic’ type humans based in the Pleiadean ’Taygeta’ and other systems, which were allegedly colonized by refugees from their former planetary abodes in the Lyra constellation which were invaded by reptiloid entities from Alpha Draconis (Thuban). The main Pleiadean planet of ’Erra’, was reportedly ’Terra-formed’ by the Lyran refugees [Lyra being much nearer to earth--around 30 light years]. The Pleiadeans were apparently the first ’humanoid’ society to develop hyper-space travel (the U.S. government has reportedly known how to tap-in to hyperspace ever since the ’Philadelphia Experiments’ of the 1940’s.)

The Pleiadeans claim that their technology surpasses our ’International’ technology by about 3000 years. This may explain why the humans in Lyra were able to travel the vast distances from this part of the galaxy to colonize the Pleiades, some 430 light-years from Terra-Earth. The Pleiadeans consider themselves to be part of the "ANDROMEDAN COUNCIL" based within some of the planetary systems within the Andromeda constellation.

http://www.bibliotec...a_alien_19b.htm

interesting reading indeed, thanks HAI. i too believe it is a great possibility that michael and the angels are waging war right now, or at least doing so on a more subtle level than they will in the near future when they will "step up" their efforts to completely eradicate satan and his fallen angels from the heavens.

by the way, it feels great that i can discuss subjects such as these on this forum. if i were to do it anywhere else i would be ridiculed, and most likely people would question if i'm even saved at all.

thanks everyone for making me feel like i'm sane.

immortality, on Jul 8 2008, 07:45 PM, said:

So many Bible verses we read, but just skip over without realizing what is being referenced. Not afraid to learn. So much to read... and so little time.

I do know that the name "Orion" in Hebrew is "Kesil", which means "fool".

It is connected to the legend of Orion (Nimrod) who lead a rebellion against the God of the Universe and convinced the people of a former Earth Age far off in antiquity to worship Seven Stars (Seven Fallen Angels) and the Twelve Signs of the Zodiac, according to the great researcher Rev. Alexander Hislop. This abomination lead to the end of that Earth Age and the splitting in half of our original Osirian Trinary Stellar System (which contained 14 celestial member) into our current Solar System and the Sirius Binary, containing our Paternal Star, Sirius B.

This is why the three pyramids are aligned with the three stars in Orion's Belt, representing our former three stars of our former Osirian System, being Sirius B (our Paternal Star), Sirius A (the outer star called the Goddess Star [Isis, Ishtar, etc., and called by Jeremiah "the Queen of Heaven"]), and Sirius C, technically our Sun (the Hero and Child God).

The split happened because Sirius B had depleted all its helium as a Red Giant and subsequently went nebula, blasting off its outer layer and crunching its internal mass into a White Dwarf.

Thus, this would explain the myth of the death of the great deity Osiris (Orion/Nimrod), being Sirius B, when his body was dismembered into 14 pieces that were scattered... being the scattering of the 14 members of the Osirian System, which contained 11 planets and 3 stars.

Also, I know the Orion Nebula is a great "nursery" for the birth of new stars. I suspect our very own Solar System may have been born from this stellar nursery, which would explain the Ancients' fascination with Constellation Orion.



So consequently, our connection to Orion is integral to our very existence, as well as the Great Dog (Sirius), which is why the two shafts in the Great Pyramid are aligned to these two regions of the celestials.

As far as the Pleiades are concerned, I do know the Maya were highly connected to this constellation as well as with the planet Venus, but this area is not my expertise other than to say it may have something to do with the Mali-African Dogon’s connection with Venus said to gauge the return of Sirius, as Plato said that the Great Pyramid was built to determine the arrival of Sirius, for our Solar System is on a collision course with Sirius (having a blue Doppler color indicating its approach); and it appears that every 12,000 years the two star systems always return to the path that they were torn away from and traverse through each other in a great extinction level transversion. Hence, “global warming”, etc. is an exponential indicator of the coming cosmocataclysm due to the stellar electromagnetic effect when eventually Sirius will pass directly through our Solar System.

-7

Hey, Here I am,

Some astronomers claim that a huge, beautifully-illuminated multicolored ’light’ has emerged from the "nebula" (click image right) and is on an intercept-course with Earth, although at a rather leisurely pace and at this rate this ’light’ or ’star’ will reach earth approximately 3000 AD (give or take a hundred years).

Well, technicly speaking we are in the year 3008, as 2000 have already passed, we are at the beginning of the 3rd day since Jesus was born...

MMarc, on Jul 9 2008, 01:26 PM, said:

Hi MMarc,

Do you have an image, or link to the image that you can post?

Thanks,
-Annie

immortality, on Jul 8 2008, 02:11 PM, said:

The Israelites understood these topics

Daniel 1v 1: In the third year of the reign of Jehoiakim king of Judah came Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon unto Jerusalem, and besieged it.

2: And the Lord gave Jehoiakim king of Judah into his hand, with part of the vessels of the house of God: which he carried into the land of Shinar to the house of his god; and he brought the vessels into the treasure house of his god.

3: And the king spake unto Ashpenaz the master of his eunuchs, that he should bring certain of the children of Israel, and of the king's seed, and of the princes;

4: Children in whom was no blemish, but well favoured, and skilful in all wisdom, and cunning in knowledge, and understanding science, and such as had ability in them to stand in the king's palace, and whom they might teach the learning and the tongue of the Chaldeans.

Pleiades giants in the OT were Anu, An, Anshar, Kishar, Antu, Ki, Gibil, Nusku, and Gulu.

Middle East Giants

http://www.stevequay...nts/index2.html


In Bolivia there have been buildings discovered built from sixty ton boulders, banded with iron bands. The legends tell of them being built in one night by Giants who visited them from the Pleiades, (a cluster of stars in the constellation Taurus, six of which are visible to the naked eye)

http://groups.msn.co...ch/giants6.msnw

Here Am I, on Jul 9 2008, 05:35 PM, said:

No, as itis a foreshadow, the natural usually foreshadows the supernatural....

Quite by "accident", I came across some History on Halloween that was at one time more well known. While doing some research on the Star of David, I ran across some talmudic references to the Pleiades and the Flood of Noah. When I looked further for other sources about this, I found that there is more ancient legend about this connection and the "missing" star of the Pleiades, than all other myths or legends of all the other constellations combined. Evidently, historians would agree that some kind of change occured in the Pleiades at the time of a worldwide catycismal event, for accounts of it are found in every culture, from native American to native Australian. The time of the flood is given in scripture as the 17th of the second month, which, in our calender year falls around the end of Oct/1st of Nov. ....The occurance of somekind of festival of the dead, or recognition of the Pleiades at this time of year, also goes back into ancient history, again, in nearly every culture.... thus the probable original source of Halloween. More reason that this is odd, is the extremely small size and dimness of this little cluster of stars, which is actually part of the constellation of Taurus the Bull, or "reem" as it is called in Hebrew. In several versions of the talmud, the Pleiades is additionally believed to be a possible location of God's sign in the future of the end times judgment.

In the course of this research I found that the geographic position of six of the seven churches of Rev. are nearly identical with the six visible stars of the Pleiades. ...and they are located on the "shoulder" of the Taurus mountains of Turkey in the same position as they appear in the constellation of Taurus. The connection has also been made betweeen the two because of the ref. in Amos 5 of the Pleiades (Kimah) as the seven stars, and the seven stars in Rev. as the messengers of the seven churches.

The Jewish sages, in some accounts believe that the change will be in the form of a Star of David. They are also the only ones who speak of the change associated with the flood as being TWO missing stars rather than one, as all the others. This is also interesting, in that now under a powerful telescope the very faint star named Estrope, which is generally not visible except under perfect conditions, is found to be a double star.

Anyone else ever found references to any of this? It was new to me, but evidently was well known at one time.
Here are some excerpts from an article on this subject, which was originally posted on a site called "Jewish voice" :

In recent centuries, Egyptologists have concluded that the pyramids may be much older than we have first suspected and MAY HAVE BEEN EXISTENT AT THE TIME OF THE FLOOD OF NOACH. Here is where it gets interesting because the Constellation KIMAH is associated directly with the Flood of Noach in Talmudic and Midrashic literature! So we can begin to see why God quizzed Job with questions about the KIMAH and Orion contextually related to a "flood of waters" in verse 34: Can you lift up your voice to the clouds, that abundance of waters may cover you?

The Torah sages wrote that God "took two stars away from KIMAH and brought the flood!"

This is alluded to in at least four places in Talmud Rosh HaShana, 11b and Talmud Baba M'tzia, 106b. It is also found in two other rabbinic writings: Ta'anith I bottom of 64a; and B'midbar Rabbah 10. The word KIMAH itself is found in more than a dozen places in the Jerusalem Talmud, 10 places in the Babylonian Talmud, 16 places in Rashis commentary to the Babylonian Talmud and 16 places in the Tosefta to the Babylonian Talmud. Every Orthodox rabbi and most non-Orthodox rabbis should be well familiar with this constellation and its relationship to the flood of Noah.

Here are a few of the most specific references:

Talmud Rosh Hashana 11b: It has been taught: In the sixth hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month. R. Joshua said: That day was the seventeenth day of Iyar, when the constellation of KIMAH sets at daybreak and the fountains begin to dry up, and because they [mankind] perverted their ways, the Holy One, blessed be He, changed for them the work of creation and made the constellation of KIMAH rise at daybreak and took two stars from the KIMAH and brought a flood on the world. R. Eliezer said: That day was the seventeenth of Heshvan, a day on which the constellation of KIMAH rises at daybreak, and [the season] when the fountains begin to fill. FOOTNOTE TO THE TALMUD: There seems to be some confusion in the text here. To make it astronomically correct we should read (with the Seder Olam) in the dictum of R. Joshua, When KIMAH rises at daybreak, and in the dictum of R. Eliezer, sets at daybreak.

In the month of Adar, corresponding to mid-February to March, the KIMAH appears to be overhead at the time the peasant finishes his work, viz., about four in the afternoon. Thus R. Papa states that seed time is governed by Adar (and KIMAH).

Elsewhere in Talmudic literature, knowledge is compared to the KIMAH, which causes the ripening of fruits and gives them taste. Since taste is a function of smell (try holding your nose when something tastes bad ... it works for my son) and the attribute by which the Talmud states the Torah devout will recognize the Messiah is by his smell; there is an ancient opinion that when the time of the Messiah nears, the people will look for a sign in the constellation KIMAH. Bre**** Rabbah 10.

Contextually the constellation may be related to the exiled House of Joseph, because it is alternatively called, Taurus or the constellation of the ox or bull. This is alluded to in B're**** (Genesis) 49:5-6 (where the rabbinim interpret the "ox" who is maimed by Simeon and Levi as Joseph); and again in the blessing of Moses on the House of Joseph, found in D'varim (Deutoronomy) 33:13-17, where Joseph is called by Moses, "the firstling of Hashem's bullock," who has the horns of the "re'eym." (verse 17). The constellation itself with its box-like head and two horns, reminds one of the head of a bullock.

Deuteronomy 33:17 goes on to state that with the horns of the re'eym, HASHEM will "gore" nations together to the ends of the Land. And these nations are the myriads of Ephraim and the thousands of Manasseh -- the House of Joseph. Moses Ben-Maimon also known as Maimomides and the Rambam, states of this verse: "the two horns represent the two branches of Joseph, Ephraim and Manasseh."

In Psalm 22:22, Hashem answers "from the horns of the Re'eym." The next verse, verse 23 states: "I will proclaim Your Name to my brethren." The Jewish sage Radak wrote that this meant when HASHEM raised the horn of the re'eym, that those who knew Hashem should tell what they know to their brothers, "the Ten Lost Tribes of Israel who had been exiled to Chalach and Chabur."

The Talmud, Tosefta and other rabbinic writings present this record of the KIMAH as the only constellation which has undergone any observable change since Creation. Consequently, if there were to be a sign in the Heavens that would be accepted by the rabbinim or leaders of Judah today, especially as it pertains to validating the Return of the House of Joseph, it might be an occurrence in KIMAH that would rectify the change recorded in the earlier rabbinic writings and alluded to in Scripture

The second mention of the KIMAH in Scripture is found in Amos 5:8.

Oseh KIMAH uchsil ve hofeych laboker tzalmavet veyom lailah hechshich Literally, "He who made the KIMAH and CHESIL (Orion) and turns darkness into morning and day He darkens as night."

This alludes to the fact that the KIMAH traverses the pre-dawn sky "turning darkness into morning" ON THE SAME PLANE AS THE SUN, whose course through the sky turns day into night.

Rabbinic exegesis of 5:8 "turning day to night and night to day," contains a profound spiritual truth. understanding will be turned upside down. Those who think they understand will be shown that they do not. And those whose understanding has been questioned or put down by the former will be exalted. More understanding will be added to them. But we can't lose sight of the fact that this reversal of understanding literally relates to a change in the heavens in the context of the Return of the House of Joseph. The natural conclusion to draw is that the change in KIMAH indicates a sign in the heavens that may SIGNAL the Return or some related event.


And then there is the mystery which has puzzled humanity as long as mankind has gazed at the stars above. The mystery is why the KIMAH is called the Constellation of Seven Sisters, when only six stars are visible with the naked eye? Is it possible that one of the stars was a doubled star? Or, was it possible that before the flood, the constellation's six stars formed a seventh, the Cocav David or Star of David? If this Cocav David will again appear in the pre-dawn sky, what does it mean?

The context in which Hashem has couched this "mystery of the Seven Sisters") is a lamentation over the House of Israel.
Only such a heavenly sign may convince the House of Judah to recognize that Hashems plan to restore Tzion (Zion) includes the non-Jewish House of Joseph


This may be conjecture, but let us propose that the secret of the Seventh Sister IS the rising again of the degel Tzion (a banner) to regather, recall and return the House of Israel. The modern Israeli flag, under which the Jewish population in the modern Jewish state has thus far reunited is such a banner. But the rabbinim are looking for such IN THE HEAVENLIES, as indicated by the Rambam, Radak and other sages quoted above.

In the Last Days, followers of Y'shua also are told to look into the Heavens for specific signs. This raises the question of whether the sign the rabbinim expect is the same sign that Y'shua promised would be revealed to his followers and which would validate his mission as the shaliah (one sent) to the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel.

Earlier we mentioned that the KIMAH in Talmudic literature "causes the ripening of fruit." Ephraim in Hebrew means "double-fruitful." The blessings of fruitfulness associated with Joseph also are evident in Genesis 49 and again in Deuteronomy 33.
But in Genesis 48:19, Ephraim is also called the "melo ha-goyim." This term is translated "multitude of nations" but its literal meaning is "the fullness of the goyim or Gentiles." The shaliah Paul in Romans 11 refers to this "fullness of the Gentiles" as triggering the "return or rescue" (Gr.. sothesetai) of ALL of (the House of) Israel.

Here we submit that Y'shua could well be referring to the Assimilation of Israel among the Gentile church.

Matthew 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the ASTRAPE cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the PAROUSIA of the Son of man be.

ASTRAPE - Strongs 796 = Lightning or bright shining (Strongs), = the gleam of a lamp (Thayers) = a flash such as lightning (Liddell & Scott), illumination of the sky accompanying cosmic phenomenon; also a derivative form ASTRO pertains to any star or constellation (Bauer, Arndt, Gingrich)

PAROUSIA - Strongs 3952 presence, arrival, advent. (Thayers)

ASTRAPE is not necessarily a bolt of lightning, which strikes at random and does not necessarily light the sky from east to west. Rather this presence, arrival or advent, Y'shua describes is likened to a cosmic phenomenon that may directly refer to a specific star or constellation.
37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

The analogy to the sign of the coming of the Son of Man and the flood of Noach is again striking, especially because the change in the constellation Kimah is tied to the flood and by implication, this eschatological sign.

Interesting info yinonyavo.I have heard some of this but not all.